Turboman
Mab An Gov
Have you ever driven a 109? They have a massive turning circle, and very heavy steering.
Petrol are better. If you want to go underwater, get a submarine. Veg oil may well harm the injector pump, or block your fuel system.
19j are the second worst diesel engine ever made, although they may be the worst instead of the 2286cc diesel.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
But you have a free bus pass.I kinda like mine
Colthebrummie
Well-Known Member
Turbs is right. I have a s3 109 stationwagon and a half hour drive in it is like 2 hours in a gym. Parking needs planning because its a nightmare to get out of tight spots. On the other hand, no other landy has the character of a series and they are also character building. Whatever you buy, test drive it first.
Col
Col
Turboman
Mab An Gov
I have had two 109 station wagons, and a hard top.
Hard to imagine a worse vehicle to drive in modern conditions.
Bobsticle
De Villes Advocaat
Try a bleedin bus. It’s a pleasure to get into Henry
dag019
Well-Known Member
You are doing that the wrong way around. You upgrade a defender by removing the terrible one peice doors with up and down windows to fit the two peice doors with sliding windows, (on a defender preferable the early/military all ali tops, but still sliding). i have done this with both of mine and a friend has just done it with his and gives you much more interior space. Not enough for an elbow but an additional 50-100mm of width on each side.
I would also disagree with this the 21/4 diesel is a fine engine if in good tune and maintained. The reason most are awful is they are in need of work and full of slack. the 19j is not a good engine and you would be better with either a 2.5na or a tdi, however most 19j are low mileage because they are so bad and if fitted to a series for weekend use may be ok. They can be easily improved (reliability not performance) by adding an intercooler. But ignore all of the nay sayers who refuse to go near a a 2.25 diesel in a series. My diesel is fine and does everything I would expect a series to do, happily pulls 7.50 tyres with a an overdrive so cannot be as low on power as people claim, an most importantly I do not have constantly cry on the forum about my ignition system not working because it is a little cold and damp outside.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
They are dreadful as new.
Dieselised petrol engine, injector pump mounted on a stalk meant for distributor, meaning they are hard to bleed, copper head gaskets that blow for a pastime, timing chain instead of a chest of gears, swirl chamber caps that are held up by the head gasket.
The list of faults goes on and on. You are right, they get much worse as they get older.
Try a Perkins, Gardner, Cummins, Toyota, Kubota, or several others if you want a good strong engine,
Turboman
Mab An Gov
I was more meaning a car sized, light 4x4 type of vehicle.Try a bleedin bus. It’s a pleasure to get into Henry
A Unimog is probably worse in modern traffic as well, and many other large vehicles and commercials.
Int Henry an 88, then?
Bobsticle
De Villes Advocaat
Yep but I don’t mention it in case he gets a bit embarrassed.
Lots of excellent advice from other posters, to which I'd add the following.
Series prices vary a lot - two very similar age/spec vehicles can be thousands of pounds apart. You will get more for your money in a Series 3 compared to a similar condition Series 2. If a Series 3 upper or lower dash is cracked/falling apart it is a big negotiating point as replacements are scarce and only available second hand at vastly inflated prices. Series 2 avoids this issue as the dash is all metal.
Original unmolested vehicles in superb condition are going up in price but something very presentable and in good order is still reasonably priced. I would not buy a basket case for total rebuild in your position; you wouldn't get it finished in your stated timeline and the list of jobs will keep getting longer. Save that for your next Landy. It will end up being sold incomplete and partially dismantled in which case you will get less than you paid for it. Get something already roadworthy in the best nick you can afford. Don't worry, there is always plenty of stuff to do to it, Series vehicles require constant checking/fettling/topping up.
Buy a factory workshop manual readily available on Amazon/eBay and get a free account with LRWorkshop.com which has the parts diagrams online linked to retailers selling parts. Parts diagrams are also great for working out how to put things back together months after dismantling them. Anything you dismantle, bag and tag it with nuts, bolts, screws etc.
I agree with other comments about the doors; Defender doors are thicker thus less room than Series due to the door cards, window gubbins inside etc. Living with a Series LWB as a daily drive is not for the faint-hearted due to the parking challenges listed above, poor rear quarter visibility if no rear windows, ponderous and heavy 'Armstrong' steering etc. Due to the heavy steering and drum brakes you need to give more room, anticipate better and slow down sooner than in modern vehicles, and you need to be all over your control inputs at all times. Morons will get impatient with the fact your Series is much slower than their modern vehicle and can't turn/stop on a sixpence. It is 1940s technology after all.
They are best garaged for security, ease of working on them, and for preventing deterioration; they leak and water gets into the electrics, corrodes things etc. Electrics are primitive, only two fuses in a S2 and four in a S3 with entire circuits unprotected by fuses (brown wire = permanently live and unfused direct from battery). Lots of jokes about 'letting the smoke out of the wiring loom' etc. A rite of passage of a Series owner is the first time you let the smoke out of the wiring loom while frantically searching for a spanner to get the earth lead off the battery. Must be comical to watch.
Series Land Rovers are great fun though, they definitely make a mundane trip into an adventure and you meet lots of great people. Final tip - fill it up with fuel as soon as the gauge gets near 1/4. Ask me how I know.
Series prices vary a lot - two very similar age/spec vehicles can be thousands of pounds apart. You will get more for your money in a Series 3 compared to a similar condition Series 2. If a Series 3 upper or lower dash is cracked/falling apart it is a big negotiating point as replacements are scarce and only available second hand at vastly inflated prices. Series 2 avoids this issue as the dash is all metal.
Original unmolested vehicles in superb condition are going up in price but something very presentable and in good order is still reasonably priced. I would not buy a basket case for total rebuild in your position; you wouldn't get it finished in your stated timeline and the list of jobs will keep getting longer. Save that for your next Landy. It will end up being sold incomplete and partially dismantled in which case you will get less than you paid for it. Get something already roadworthy in the best nick you can afford. Don't worry, there is always plenty of stuff to do to it, Series vehicles require constant checking/fettling/topping up.
Buy a factory workshop manual readily available on Amazon/eBay and get a free account with LRWorkshop.com which has the parts diagrams online linked to retailers selling parts. Parts diagrams are also great for working out how to put things back together months after dismantling them. Anything you dismantle, bag and tag it with nuts, bolts, screws etc.
I agree with other comments about the doors; Defender doors are thicker thus less room than Series due to the door cards, window gubbins inside etc. Living with a Series LWB as a daily drive is not for the faint-hearted due to the parking challenges listed above, poor rear quarter visibility if no rear windows, ponderous and heavy 'Armstrong' steering etc. Due to the heavy steering and drum brakes you need to give more room, anticipate better and slow down sooner than in modern vehicles, and you need to be all over your control inputs at all times. Morons will get impatient with the fact your Series is much slower than their modern vehicle and can't turn/stop on a sixpence. It is 1940s technology after all.
They are best garaged for security, ease of working on them, and for preventing deterioration; they leak and water gets into the electrics, corrodes things etc. Electrics are primitive, only two fuses in a S2 and four in a S3 with entire circuits unprotected by fuses (brown wire = permanently live and unfused direct from battery). Lots of jokes about 'letting the smoke out of the wiring loom' etc. A rite of passage of a Series owner is the first time you let the smoke out of the wiring loom while frantically searching for a spanner to get the earth lead off the battery. Must be comical to watch.
Series Land Rovers are great fun though, they definitely make a mundane trip into an adventure and you meet lots of great people. Final tip - fill it up with fuel as soon as the gauge gets near 1/4. Ask me how I know.
PS: Personally I prefer the petrol engine, it is sweet sounding, quiet at idle and if everything is in good nick it goes surprisingly well. Probably better for keeping up with traffic than a 2286 diesel. My petrol 88" will easily exceed 60mph, not that I'd want to do that on a regular basis in a Series.
McBoon
Active Member
I'm presuming that's what he meant when he said he could 'Rev match' --- that's a new term for the lexicon!!!
Think I'll stick with 'double declutch'!!
Shippers
Well-Known Member
Stop messin and get one
don’t be put off by the old codgers. They had one for the very same reason you do. They’ve just forgotten.
Half way through an S2 rebuild...haven't forgotten the bodges:
Any short body bolts replaced with 2inch with locknuts that fight right to the last rusted thread and no room to cut off..
All split pins replaced with nails, fine exept to thick so hammered in and snap off when straightend and need drilled out..
When you want a bolt to sheer off it doesn't and when you dont it does...
And when you look back at pics when you dismantled it you realise someone put it together wrongly "steering drop arm on top of swivel"...
Long reach plugs in the 101 V8 and the hardest to reach had thread jammed against inside the chamber and snapped as I tried to remove it eventually had to remove head and took to a specialist "cheap here 25€ to remove"...
Yes love the old series..
And I havn't mentioned electrics yet...
Bobsticle
De Villes Advocaat
You love it.
If it ain’t broke I ain’t fixed it. Just bide my time till it does. No good asking for it
dag019
Well-Known Member
I would echo the above about getting a project status vehicle. if you want/can only afford a vehicle that needs work I would get one that can be done as a rolling restoration. I got my 110 when I was 18 (best use of my student loan as far as I am concerned) and then at 20 got my series 3 because it came up for sale as a failed project form a friend who needed a quick sale. The 110 was my daily drive so I could not afford for it to be off the road and was worked on as a rolling restoration (it was the cheapest ebay special I could find with 12 months mot form stevie wonder!) it took me 5 years to get it "finished" and has been constant maintenance ever since with an engine fire in the summer resulting in another rebuild but this time off the road as was too severe.
I did a similar thing with the series, I put it back together enough to get an mot and then ran it as a rolling restoration but as a second vehicle could be off the road for periods if needed. hat also took about 5 years to finish. Do not be worried about driving something around that is not perfect. I spent the first 18months of driving the series with the top corners of the bulkhead cut out ready for repair panels because they were like that when I got it but I had not got around to welding it up. Similarly even now it still needs the rear crank seal replacing but I am waiting for it to need a clutch before i splits the box, I have just lived with it for all these years and make sure not to park on friends block paving!
I did a similar thing with the series, I put it back together enough to get an mot and then ran it as a rolling restoration but as a second vehicle could be off the road for periods if needed. hat also took about 5 years to finish. Do not be worried about driving something around that is not perfect. I spent the first 18months of driving the series with the top corners of the bulkhead cut out ready for repair panels because they were like that when I got it but I had not got around to welding it up. Similarly even now it still needs the rear crank seal replacing but I am waiting for it to need a clutch before i splits the box, I have just lived with it for all these years and make sure not to park on friends block paving!
LetsHopeItFits
Active Member
Okay, wow, thanks very much all for your comments!
Lets start with rev matching vs double declutching. Normal gear change - driving along, lift off accelerator, press clutch, move lever, lift of clutch, back on the accelerator. Double declutch - driving along, lift off accelerator, press clutch, move lever into neutral, release clutch, press clutch, move lever, lift off clutch, back onto the accelerator. Rev matching, is like normal gearchange, but you keep your foot on the accelerator to match the revs to the speed/gear you want, and is really only relevant to downshifts.
Engines, electrics, bastard bolts. This is the big benefit of doing a "full rebuild" type of thing, new bolts, all freshly greased, new wiring, properly insulated using good quality connectors etc. And the choice to fit any engine, without, in theory, too much hassle (depending on the engine if course!)
Its not going to be a daily driven vehicle, more of a weekend toy/backup car/ambitious tow car/tip trip truck/camping truck/etc etc. You know, one weekend you fill it with mates and beverages, head out to the woods around strata, camp, and then drive home at mid day the next day, not worried about the vomit, because the rain is washing it out!
As for a garage, just not an option. Ive got a way to keep it secure, by locking it to something like a really big tree, with a massive chain.
Cost of resto - 10k, ouch. Did that include a respray? Deffo not bothered about the paint, its a land rover!
Steering/brakes are heavy. Man up. Just kidding. Ill ask very nicely if I can have a go in my mates dads 88 petrol S3, Im sure he'll say no, but worth the ask. Im happy with the ride in a 109 on parabolics, comfier than my disco, or any defender Ive been in. Seats may be bad, but I doubt its overly difficult to put a different seat in?
Also, these trucks dont have seatbelts, do they? My disco always felt like living in a nanny state...
Ohh, another question. Not really related, just want to know, can leaf springs be fitted to a defender/rrc/d1/etc chassis?
Really amazed at all the comments, I think Ive responded to them all!
P.S. - anyone selling a 109 that doesnt need welding?
Lets start with rev matching vs double declutching. Normal gear change - driving along, lift off accelerator, press clutch, move lever, lift of clutch, back on the accelerator. Double declutch - driving along, lift off accelerator, press clutch, move lever into neutral, release clutch, press clutch, move lever, lift off clutch, back onto the accelerator. Rev matching, is like normal gearchange, but you keep your foot on the accelerator to match the revs to the speed/gear you want, and is really only relevant to downshifts.
Engines, electrics, bastard bolts. This is the big benefit of doing a "full rebuild" type of thing, new bolts, all freshly greased, new wiring, properly insulated using good quality connectors etc. And the choice to fit any engine, without, in theory, too much hassle (depending on the engine if course!)
Its not going to be a daily driven vehicle, more of a weekend toy/backup car/ambitious tow car/tip trip truck/camping truck/etc etc. You know, one weekend you fill it with mates and beverages, head out to the woods around strata, camp, and then drive home at mid day the next day, not worried about the vomit, because the rain is washing it out!
As for a garage, just not an option. Ive got a way to keep it secure, by locking it to something like a really big tree, with a massive chain.
Cost of resto - 10k, ouch. Did that include a respray? Deffo not bothered about the paint, its a land rover!
Steering/brakes are heavy. Man up. Just kidding. Ill ask very nicely if I can have a go in my mates dads 88 petrol S3, Im sure he'll say no, but worth the ask. Im happy with the ride in a 109 on parabolics, comfier than my disco, or any defender Ive been in. Seats may be bad, but I doubt its overly difficult to put a different seat in?
Also, these trucks dont have seatbelts, do they? My disco always felt like living in a nanny state...
Ohh, another question. Not really related, just want to know, can leaf springs be fitted to a defender/rrc/d1/etc chassis?
Really amazed at all the comments, I think Ive responded to them all!
P.S. - anyone selling a 109 that doesnt need welding?
Shippers
Well-Known Member
Thats the easy enjoyable bit trust me... getting there with the equipment Iv'e got at my disposal was a long hard difficult job of a strip down...a lot of people start with "I'll do a rolling resto a bit every now and then" till they hit problems and give up and sell as a project...my point is dont go in with rose-tinted glasses thinking it's a few panels bolted together easy sorted with a few spanners and a bag of new fixings and a tub of grease...getting it apart is the hard part...took two of us 4hrs to remove a starter motor and the rear prop flange from the transfer box and that was with just the bulkhead left on the chassis...stud undid from bellhousing and snagged on block and nuts rounded off on propshaft flange and we have a FULL Snap-on tool kit plus more bits of kit...took nearly a day to re-fit starter to this after owner removed it and couldn't get it back on...
