Shippers
Well-Known Member
Oh well. He will have to get a Grand Cherokee, then!
In that case he might as well keep his disco...
In that case he might as well keep his disco...
Turboman
Mab An Gov
I kind of thought all along that that might be a better idea.
Although it wouldn't be so good for his post count, or probably not, anyway.
LetsHopeItFits
Active Member
Nope - Im relatively sure I want a series. And Im certain I want a diesel. The ambulance body is a lucky coincidence, its the only one within reasonable bidget nearby.
Not sure if I care about the absence of syncros on 1st and 2nd. Overdrive is a necesary addition for motorway driving so Ill fit it. Parabolic springs make a massive difference IMO. The ride in a 109 on parabolics is better than an oversprung coil setup.
The engine is probably a secondary issue. The petrol engine works, so theres no rush to change it. I imagine that if it needs replacing, it will be replaced with whichever diesel engine is available nearest to me, and is a drop in replacement (i.e. no fabrication needed - does this limit me to only the 2.25 diesel?)
Not sure if I care about the absence of syncros on 1st and 2nd. Overdrive is a necesary addition for motorway driving so Ill fit it. Parabolic springs make a massive difference IMO. The ride in a 109 on parabolics is better than an oversprung coil setup.
The engine is probably a secondary issue. The petrol engine works, so theres no rush to change it. I imagine that if it needs replacing, it will be replaced with whichever diesel engine is available nearest to me, and is a drop in replacement (i.e. no fabrication needed - does this limit me to only the 2.25 diesel?)
Shippers
Well-Known Member
You'll soon change your mind when you drive an old series ambulance thats had years of REME non-maintenance...
Shippers
Well-Known Member
An ambulance is a 109 only by wheel base nothing like a standard one...
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
A little 2.25 in an ambulance body will maybe do 11mpg if you're lucky, fully laden you're down to single figures so i'd say for any long trips your V8 Discovery is actually easier on the old wallet.
As for speed the 2.25 diesel is a gutless whore in an 88" I would hate to think that one would be like in a 109 ambulance, near undriveable i'd imagine..
If I bought a series landie which i'd never, a little 4bt cummins is what i'd drop in..
But then again if you're buying it to do this planned trip of yours a kitted out discovery is a safer and more financially viable notion, a good bit more comfortable too a series is a very hard car to drive any considerable distance, my Grandad and my father had loads of them but if they wanted to go further than 30mi from the farm they used a Range Rover or Shogun..
The Forestry workers and Farmers that bought series landrovers bought them as tools, thats all they are in reality a characterful wheelbarrow..
Having one to bimble about in is fair enough but for anything else more challenging, nah...
My opinion of course...
LetsHopeItFits
Active Member
Thanks all.
Im doing a bit og a switcheroo. Currently Ive got 2 80s/90s cars that are OK at being normal cars, but still somewhat special/fun/hobby cars. Im thinking of selling both, and getting one normal boring car (diesel skoda, might get it remapped, whatever) and a extra-special land rover.
As for trips, Im thinking of going somewhere more civilised for the first trip abroad. Perhaps iceland, maybe the pyranese, who knows.
Surely the only difference between the ambulance and a regular 109 is the body on the back, and the roof? So the correct parabolics (probably the heaviest rated) would still be adequate.
What does "REME" mean? Royal engineering maintainance engineres? Its nearly 60 years old, its been out of their hands for decades!
Engines - whatever uses the least fuel at 60mph, without fabrication skills. Thats what Ill put in it.
Dont care about safety. If I wanted a safe adventure, Ide go to haven.
Having been in a 109 on parabolics, the ride is truly remarcable. I was shocked. Ive been in a fair few land rovers, and I can say that with the exception of the air-sprung D3, the 109 had the best ride. As for seats, I understand that there are plenty of options.
Everyone agrees that the land rover conquered the world. And those land rovers werent coil sprung yet.
Everyone says that one cannot simply drop say a tweaked 200tdi in a series, because the driveline cannot cope. What exactly breaks?
Im doing a bit og a switcheroo. Currently Ive got 2 80s/90s cars that are OK at being normal cars, but still somewhat special/fun/hobby cars. Im thinking of selling both, and getting one normal boring car (diesel skoda, might get it remapped, whatever) and a extra-special land rover.
As for trips, Im thinking of going somewhere more civilised for the first trip abroad. Perhaps iceland, maybe the pyranese, who knows.
Surely the only difference between the ambulance and a regular 109 is the body on the back, and the roof? So the correct parabolics (probably the heaviest rated) would still be adequate.
What does "REME" mean? Royal engineering maintainance engineres? Its nearly 60 years old, its been out of their hands for decades!
Engines - whatever uses the least fuel at 60mph, without fabrication skills. Thats what Ill put in it.
Dont care about safety. If I wanted a safe adventure, Ide go to haven.
Having been in a 109 on parabolics, the ride is truly remarcable. I was shocked. Ive been in a fair few land rovers, and I can say that with the exception of the air-sprung D3, the 109 had the best ride. As for seats, I understand that there are plenty of options.
Everyone agrees that the land rover conquered the world. And those land rovers werent coil sprung yet.
Everyone says that one cannot simply drop say a tweaked 200tdi in a series, because the driveline cannot cope. What exactly breaks?
Colthebrummie
Well-Known Member
Well, the gearbox would be my main worry. Even with a normal 2.25 engine, you have to treat the gearbox with a bit of care. Then there is the diff. The later sailsbury diffs are betterer but they are about 50 years old now and who knows what ki d of life they have had. Ex army vehicles may (or may not) have had good maintenance but they were all driven by mad squadies who didnt have to pay for repairs. When I first got my 109 station wagon the original leaf springs felt like iron girders and I was intending to replace them with parabolics, but after giving them an oiling and using the vehicles, they started loosening up and are now quite acceptable. Parabolics give a bit more articulation for heavy duty off roading but apart from that, the original spec springs are fine. If you are planning to take a series to iceland, you will need to replace.a.stack of stuff first or you wont make.it.as.far.as the ferry.
Col
Wildefalcon
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of bull**** out there.
A TDI will push a well maintained series box for as long as a 2286. It will cruise comfortably at 50 mph with a laden trailer. A series 3 box would be best, rebuilt. Earlier 2a boxes have weaker layshafts, but, as you say, it's a fifty year old+ vehicle, you'd rebuild the box anyway.
On the subject of age, the TDI isn't a new engine either, again, rebuild.
If you want faster, and I understand why, then the gearing is against you. The easiest way would be a diff ratio change. You lose the crawl speed, but gain on the motorway.
An ambulance is a bitch to push beyond sixty, the aerodynamics don't, and aerostatics do.
So you HAVE to push it hard. So, extra maintenance on everything, extra fuel, high power cylinder head, updated IP, bigger cooling, liquid and charge cooler. Frequent oil changes, all of the fun stuff.
As several posters have suggested, it's a hard road that you've chosen, your choice.
If it were me. I'd get, for the same money after rebuild of a gearbox and a TDI engine, a 101 ambo, and fit defender ratio crown and pinions to the axles.
V8, tunable, lt95, almost unbreakable, more space for the wheelbase, a lot less messing about with a vehicle. The more you mess with a series, the less it's worth.
A TDI will push a well maintained series box for as long as a 2286. It will cruise comfortably at 50 mph with a laden trailer. A series 3 box would be best, rebuilt. Earlier 2a boxes have weaker layshafts, but, as you say, it's a fifty year old+ vehicle, you'd rebuild the box anyway.
On the subject of age, the TDI isn't a new engine either, again, rebuild.
If you want faster, and I understand why, then the gearing is against you. The easiest way would be a diff ratio change. You lose the crawl speed, but gain on the motorway.
An ambulance is a bitch to push beyond sixty, the aerodynamics don't, and aerostatics do.
So you HAVE to push it hard. So, extra maintenance on everything, extra fuel, high power cylinder head, updated IP, bigger cooling, liquid and charge cooler. Frequent oil changes, all of the fun stuff.
As several posters have suggested, it's a hard road that you've chosen, your choice.
If it were me. I'd get, for the same money after rebuild of a gearbox and a TDI engine, a 101 ambo, and fit defender ratio crown and pinions to the axles.
V8, tunable, lt95, almost unbreakable, more space for the wheelbase, a lot less messing about with a vehicle. The more you mess with a series, the less it's worth.
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Turboman
Mab An Gov
You kids are just soft. I used to drive all the way from Surrey to the North of Scotland in a Perkins engined 109" at 45 mph!A little 2.25 in an ambulance body will maybe do 11mpg if you're lucky, fully laden you're down to single figures so i'd say for any long trips your V8 Discovery is actually easier on the old wallet.
As for speed the 2.25 diesel is a gutless whore in an 88" I would hate to think that one would be like in a 109 ambulance, near undriveable i'd imagine..
If I bought a series landie which i'd never, a little 4bt cummins is what i'd drop in..
But then again if you're buying it to do this planned trip of yours a kitted out discovery is a safer and more financially viable notion, a good bit more comfortable too a series is a very hard car to drive any considerable distance, my Grandad and my father had loads of them but if they wanted to go further than 30mi from the farm they used a Range Rover or Shogun..
The Forestry workers and Farmers that bought series landrovers bought them as tools, thats all they are in reality a characterful wheelbarrow..
Having one to bimble about in is fair enough but for anything else more challenging, nah...
My opinion of course...
Wildefalcon
Well-Known Member
Did a run from Bristol to Tain a few years ago when mine was a DI, with a trailer. Took three days, but great fun, I do like the slow life sometimes, it's a road trip, an adventure.
dag019
Well-Known Member
I would be very wary of getting a series ambulance to motorway speeds for lots of reasons other than the engine!
everything has already been said above really. You are not going to get much more than 55-60 out of any series vehicle and an ambulance is more likely to be 50-55.
as I believe was said earlier in this thread when you first started you need to get one and drive it before thinking about modifying it. You can the, when you have some experience, make an informed decision on what your priorities for modification are.
Again as said above I wouldn’t bother with parabolics but I do like my overdrive. Other than that my series has no modifications. You would be better off spending your money repairing/replacing the chassis, or fitting new wiring looms, or reconditioning the gearbox and transfer box than fitting new sponge and a different engine.
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Turboman
Mab An Gov
Overdrive is good in a standard Series.
In an ambulance, I doubt if the power available is enough to push the box body through the air any faster with overdrive, because drag increases logarithmically as speed increases.
tottot
Well-Known Member
Was once at a 4x4 event that required us to follow a leader to the event site as it was rather hard to find.
Our convoy of around ten trucks mostly Land Rover's set off down the main road but we had to go at just 40mph as we had a Pinzgauer 6x6 ambulance in the line and that was about the best it could do on any incline [ it was brill off road ] After a few miles there was quite a queue behind.
We reached a long straight and those behind started to overtake the lot of us. I was second in the convoy and you should have seen the faces of those drivers when they saw the lead vehicle holding up them old landy's was a rally prepared Subaru Impreza.
Our convoy of around ten trucks mostly Land Rover's set off down the main road but we had to go at just 40mph as we had a Pinzgauer 6x6 ambulance in the line and that was about the best it could do on any incline [ it was brill off road ] After a few miles there was quite a queue behind.
We reached a long straight and those behind started to overtake the lot of us. I was second in the convoy and you should have seen the faces of those drivers when they saw the lead vehicle holding up them old landy's was a rally prepared Subaru Impreza.
LetsHopeItFits
Active Member
Surely it cant be that bad? If I put it on a trailer and towed it with my disco, Im sure it would do 70-80 (thats the top end of 3rd gear) and thats a 5 ton thing. (Yes, I know weight has no bearing on top speed on a flat surface, theoretically)
I can probably buy a series 3 gearbox, if the standard one is caught lacking.
The only other car thats likely to be in the convoy currently is my friends 109 SW, with its 2.25 diesel with OD. The ambo body isnt actually that bad surely. Its not that different to a tipping box on the back of a 110/130.
Now - the word "rebuild" has been thrown around a fair bit. Is this something that I can have a go at, or do I need hundereds of pounds of specialist tools to do it?
One more thing - if Im putting a diesel engine in place of a petrol, do I just drain the petrol out and put diesel in the tank, and connect the old hose from the carb to the pump? Surely theres more that needs changing?
How long would you estimate the complete swap to take? (I.e. from having a diesel lump in the boot and a petrol under the bonnet, to the diesel under the bonnet and the petrol in the boot)
Discussion about the springs - we'll just wait and see. They might be fine, they might not.
Tyres - Personally I really liked skinny tyres on my disco, but would much wider ones suit the series better? (Like the leyland brothers had)
I can probably buy a series 3 gearbox, if the standard one is caught lacking.
The only other car thats likely to be in the convoy currently is my friends 109 SW, with its 2.25 diesel with OD. The ambo body isnt actually that bad surely. Its not that different to a tipping box on the back of a 110/130.
Now - the word "rebuild" has been thrown around a fair bit. Is this something that I can have a go at, or do I need hundereds of pounds of specialist tools to do it?
One more thing - if Im putting a diesel engine in place of a petrol, do I just drain the petrol out and put diesel in the tank, and connect the old hose from the carb to the pump? Surely theres more that needs changing?
How long would you estimate the complete swap to take? (I.e. from having a diesel lump in the boot and a petrol under the bonnet, to the diesel under the bonnet and the petrol in the boot)
Discussion about the springs - we'll just wait and see. They might be fine, they might not.
Tyres - Personally I really liked skinny tyres on my disco, but would much wider ones suit the series better? (Like the leyland brothers had)
dag019
Well-Known Member
that won’t give you any more speed. The main difference is a series 3 box is full synchro.
my 88 series 3 2.25 diesel with OD (running 7.50 tyres) sits happily at 55, sits unhappily at 60, and tops out at about 65. So don’t expect much from the 109!
it is a little more involved than that but it is still fairly straight forward. You will need a return to the tank as well. You will need to replace the choke with a stop cable for the Diesel pump. And you will need to do some wiring to get glow plugs. Those are the main differences off the top of my head. You should be able to do comfortably the swap in a Weekend if you have the parts.
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dag019
Well-Known Member
This depends on what you already have and what you consider to be a specialist tool if you are going to be working on vehicles. They are very basic engines and even more basic vehicles to work on. But if you consider anything more than a spanner/screwdriver specialist then you will need some. I would not consider things like valve spring compressors to be a specialist tool. But even if you are starting from nothing you should be able to get all the tools needed to rebuild any of the diesel Land Rover options being discussed for a couple hundred.
Wildefalcon
Well-Known Member
Everyone starts somewhere.
Look at the website Glencoyne engineering. He goes through a diesel conversion in detail.
As for the top speed thing?
The difference between thirty and fifty miles per hour is nothing compared to the difference between fifty and sixty miles per hour.
It's physics. An ambulance has a huge flat rear, this acts as a brake, as you go faster, because the air has to fill in the gap you make as you travel. The faster you go the more this drags you back, but it's not a straight line effect, it's logimetric.
It's why the backs of modern cars slope down. And you don't see proper estate cars anymore.
So, yes, seventy is loud, expensive, and it feels like the vehicle is being punished, and that's in a normal series. Add a massive amount of drag and weight from the ambulance body and it's not going to get easier.
Look at the website Glencoyne engineering. He goes through a diesel conversion in detail.
As for the top speed thing?
The difference between thirty and fifty miles per hour is nothing compared to the difference between fifty and sixty miles per hour.
It's physics. An ambulance has a huge flat rear, this acts as a brake, as you go faster, because the air has to fill in the gap you make as you travel. The faster you go the more this drags you back, but it's not a straight line effect, it's logimetric.
It's why the backs of modern cars slope down. And you don't see proper estate cars anymore.
So, yes, seventy is loud, expensive, and it feels like the vehicle is being punished, and that's in a normal series. Add a massive amount of drag and weight from the ambulance body and it's not going to get easier.
