Citizen Kane

Well-Known Member
I've been reading through some of the DVSA documentation about the forthcoming MOT exemption criteria.

I have a Land Rover Series 3 manufactured on the 12 January 1978, so I just missed out on getting it declared as a Vehicles of Historical Interest (VHI) and therefore I dont qualify for tax exemption for this year.

The tax is due on the 1st September and the MOT on the 29th September.

This statement is copied from the DVSA website published on the 31st March this year.

"If a car was first registered on 31 May 1978, it won’t need an MOT from 31 May 2018."

So, does that mean that MOT exemption and VHI status can be mutually exclusive.

Now, it may not be as straight forward as that. My Land Rover is fitted with a Defender 200 TDi engine, without the turbo fitted. The question is, does this count as a substantial change?

This is an extract from the DVSA guidance notes.

The criteria for substantial change

A vehicle will be considered substantially changed if the technical characteristics of
the main components have changed in the previous 30 years, unless the changes
fall into specific categories. These main components for vehicles, other than
motorcycles2, are:

Engine – alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative
original equipment engines are not considered a substantial change. If the number
of cylinders in an engine is different from the original, it is likely to be, but not
necessarily, the case that the current engine is not alternative original equipment.


The following are considered acceptable (not substantial) changes if they fall into these specific categories:
• changes of a type, that can be demonstrated to have been made when vehicles of the type were in production or in general use (within ten years of the end of production);"


So, can I claim that its an alternative cubic capacity of the same basic engine or could I claim that the Series and the Defender were of the same type, the Series 3 ceased production in 1985 and the first 200TDi Defenders were manufactured in 1990.
 
As far as I can tell from reading it, there's no connection between the historic vehicle tax band and the new MOT regs - so you can easily have one without the other.

In terms of the engine, the key thing is the last line in your quote - were people fitting 200TDis within ten years of the end of production (so before 1995), and if so, is there any documentary evidence to demonstrate it? If there is, then you're laughing...
 
I think your right, I dont need to registered as historic to qualify for MOT exemption.

As far as the engine change is concerned I read this on another forum.

"the officers at the series 2 club were consulted by dvsa and have agreed that rover v8, 200tdi, perkins etc are all OK to keep hvi status and mot exemption."
 
Interesting I've got a Rover V8 in a S3 and thought I'd still need an MoT - will check. I'll take it for one anyway for piece of mind.
 
One thing I have not had an answer too, is how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had no MOT test within a 12 month period? My worry is that over the next few years there will be a few accidents involving MOT exempt vehicles where insurance companies refuse to pay out on the grounds that there was a mechanical defect. The only reasonable way to then prove that your old vehicle it kept in good order is to have an MOT once a year even though it is not legally required! At the moment it is generally accepted by insurance companies that if a mechanical fault that the average person would not have been aware of caused an accident they will pay out provided the vehicle has an MOT. I think the bliss of no longer needing an MOT may not be all that long lasting in practice.
 
I think it's a bad idea to do away with mot tests, I keep my land rover in tip top mechanical condition and do all my own repairs and servicing but it isn't unknown for me to miss something or let something 'develop' so it's a good thing for me to have to ensure everything is right and legal at least once a year.
 
I think it's a bad idea to do away with mot tests, I keep my land rover in tip top mechanical condition and do all my own repairs and servicing but it isn't unknown for me to miss something or let something 'develop' so it's a good thing for me to have to ensure everything is right and legal at least once a year.
It’s a numbers game and really quite a simple one.

The total number of vehicles on the roads that will be MoT exempt is tiny. Can’t recall the last figures I saw but something like less than 1%.

And out of those vehciles the actual number of road miles or hours spent on the road each year is an even lower percentage, ie most of these vehciles are not doing the daily commute and not doing 12,000 - 20,000 miles a year. There are probably many that don’t even do 1000 miles a year.

And of these vehciles most will likely not be used at peak commuting times when the roads are most hazardous.

All this means is by the numbers there is a very low chance of vehicles such as these being involved in serious road accidents. Of course it will still be possible. And here is the next important crux. The Vehcile needs to be road worthy regardless of not being “forced” to have it checked once a year. If you are worried have yours inspected.

And to add a little more food for thought. There are other vehicle types that also don’t need an MoT. Farm tractors being one of them, so all those contractors you see whizzing about with bales, corn, etc on. They don’t have any form of MoT. Neither do many ex military vehciles, traction engines and some specialist heavy plant machinery.
 
I have mixed feeling about MOT exemption. Mine will now be exempt but while I don't look forward to the MOT I do really appreciate an independent safety check. Despite doing most of my own servicing for many years and always believing my vehicles in safe condition I have had some fails on serious issues that I'd missed, in one case some dangerous corrosion in a location only visible on a ramp with a decent work light. We are now faced with having to get under and check all the brake lines, mountings, swivels etc on a regular basis without having all the gear. I don't have a garage so I'll be trying to bar the front wheels in the road. I also agree with those above about the legal issues. Will insurers ask for an MOT or some form of declaration or independent inspection? The inspection could cost more than the MOT and a declaration makes the owner liable, at least with an MOT there is some arms length. I would prefer to get an MOT regardless but I'd want to know what the legal status of that would be and if the vehicle is MOT exempt can the MOT station key into the DoT system or will it refuse? The DoT line is it is by popular demand, because classic owners keep their vehicles in top condition (!?) and the skills to MOT them are lost. I'm not pursuaded and wonder if it was the garage opertors who wanted the exemption to make life easier.
 
Owned mine from new in 1975...I'm the only one to ever lay any kind of tools on it...its only failed once in all those years...on an amber flasher lens that was not amber enough.

Not a bad record me thinks.

So confident going MOT free.
 
I have mixed feeling about MOT exemption. Mine will now be exempt but while I don't look forward to the MOT I do really appreciate an independent safety check. Despite doing most of my own servicing for many years and always believing my vehicles in safe condition I have had some fails on serious issues that I'd missed, in one case some dangerous corrosion in a location only visible on a ramp with a decent work light. We are now faced with having to get under and check all the brake lines, mountings, swivels etc on a regular basis without having all the gear. I don't have a garage so I'll be trying to bar the front wheels in the road. I also agree with those above about the legal issues. Will insurers ask for an MOT or some form of declaration or independent inspection? The inspection could cost more than the MOT and a declaration makes the owner liable, at least with an MOT there is some arms length. I would prefer to get an MOT regardless but I'd want to know what the legal status of that would be and if the vehicle is MOT exempt can the MOT station key into the DoT system or will it refuse? The DoT line is it is by popular demand, because classic owners keep their vehicles in top condition (!?) and the skills to MOT them are lost. I'm not pursuaded and wonder if it was the garage opertors who wanted the exemption to make life easier.
Not sure I understand your post.

Not having a compulsory MoT check does not mean you have to lay under the vehicle. You can still get it checked. Talk about making a Mountain out of a mole hill.

As for the legal side of things. Pre 1960’s cars have been MoT exempt for some time. So MoT exemption is not a new thing.
 
Don't panic....

We have 4 pre 1960 cars between the family. All go for a bit of ramp time at various mot stations
Just find a friendly 1 that will charge you a couple of quid to go under & have an inspect. We do this as it gives the apprentice knowledge & experience.
if your worried they can give you an inspection for peace of mind.

I'm sure you spot problems & sort these out before you would have gone for an mot?
 
My insurer's latest email newsletter has an article on the MOT exemption. They say they've contacted the DVLA to clarify things, and state that:
  • They (the insurer) will not insist on an MOT for exempt classics - of course other insurers might have different policies...
  • The MOT exemption and the historic tax class are unrelated.
  • The exemption is from the 40th anniversary of when the vehicle was registered or first used (not the following financial year like the tax)
  • You'll need to re-confirm the exemption each year when renewing the tax.
 
My insurer's latest email newsletter has an article on the MOT exemption. They say they've contacted the DVLA to clarify things, and state that:
  • They (the insurer) will not insist on an MOT for exempt classics - of course other insurers might have different policies...
  • The MOT exemption and the historic tax class are unrelated.
  • The exemption is from the 40th anniversary of when the vehicle was registered or first used (not the following financial year like the tax)
  • You'll need to re-confirm the exemption each year when renewing the tax.
I wonder if when you re-confirm the exemption you need to declare that the vehicle is in road worthy condition.
 
You are quite right in saying that I see problems where others do not, that's my day job, I get to see all the arguments that happen when things were not made clear from the start. I'm on the fence over the MOT exemption and I do lie under my series every 6 months and take a good look round, but I'm not sure that's the same as a MOT lift, brake tester and a large pry bar with room to move it. Time will tell. What I don't like about the current situation is the number of loose ends, in my expreience these seldom end up benefiting us.
 
I wonder if when you re-confirm the exemption you need to declare that the vehicle is in road worthy condition.

I don't see why. You are responsible for the vehicle being in roadworthy condition every time you take any vehicle on the road anyway.
 
If you’re worried you can still have it Mot’d so I don’t see a problem.
As for me I see it as the fact that I will save £50 a year on an MOT test oh and a lot more on tax. Result.

Norrie.
 
I wonder if when you re-confirm the exemption you need to declare that the vehicle is in road worthy condition.

no you don't, if the vehicle is exempt and you tax on line the system will automatically give you your free ved. As others have said there are already mot exempt vehicles and the system has been there for years
 
Interesting I've got a Rover V8 in a S3 and thought I'd still need an MoT - will check. I'll take it for one anyway for piece of mind.
I took it for the MoT and it passed, after some brake adjustments. The tester told me that leaks are now classed as a fail but the term leaks wasn't specified, ie one drop per year or ten drops per minute, so that may be an issue for some of us, including me. I was under the impression all older british cars has this as a design feature to keep the rust at bay. Anyway, I asked the DVLA and just got the standard blurb so not conclusive and just pushes any accountability back to me so I'll be taking it for a MoT in the future, unless something changes. He did day if it was MoT exempt I just book it in for an "inspection", ie an MoT but not an MoT, as if you request an MoT they are legally bound to enter the details on the system and any fail will need to be rectified.
FFG
 
My 1974 S3 is going for voluntary MOT next week having had last years advisories fixed, especially new drivers footwell. My other 56 year old classic sailed through on Wednesday with an advisory about a diff oil leak which was news to me. Garage floor evidence suggests about a drip per month!

I've seen on a forum elsewhere that for a fluid leak to cause an outright fail the criterion is a 75mm puddle in 5 minutes. Can anyone verify this?
 

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