R

Rockhopper

Member
Hi,can anyone help. baught a TD5 a couple of weeks ago, in pretty good condition but rear brakes completely shot , totally seized and had to virtually cut every brake component off with a grinder. Now have brand new Discs, pads Carriers and Pistons etc fitted to both sides, rear only. I have bled the rears, one at a time and am able to build the pressure up in the system after only a couple pushes on the brake pedal during the bleeding process (not swearing, honestly), and the brake fluid runs clear (no bubbles). The brake fluid resivoir is full and the jar I am using to catch the expelled brake fluid in shows that fluid is passing out of the system. I asked my wife to push on the brake pedal, which she reluctantly did , and the pads hold the disc firmly on both sides and when the brake pedal is released, the hubs spin without binding or grinding. I live on a farm and drove down our track, but when attempting to brake, the brake travels virtually to the floor for appx 1 to 1 1/2 pushes on the brake pedal, and then full resistance is felt through the brake pedal and the car stops pretty quickly, much better than before. My question therefore is this. Should my wife consider it her wifely duty to help me bleed the brakes, or go inside instead and watch the apprentice whilst I fix the car so that she can go to some pony club meet at the weekend. No, thats not the question.. the question is.......should I have bled the whole system, fronts and rear, or could it be that I have made some silly schoolboy error. Any assistance/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Rockhopper.
 
Front and rears! It got dark this evening and so I gave up and didnt get round to the fronts. I guess I will need to do it first thing. Having looked at the front brakes, they do work, but dont look as if they have had much TLC in the past, they look really cruddy and rusty. The bleed nipple will probably be in a right state. Hopefully I will be able to slacken them off in order to bleed them. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Rockhopper
 
Yeah, full system .. air will bleed back up any pipes, dispelling brake fluid and if the fronts are as bad as you say the pistons may also need some persuasion to work properly again.
 
The car is in pretty good shape, and will only be used at weekends, but it needs to be safe. I will take the front wheels off in the morning and check the conditiion of the pads/pistons and carriers etc, but will definately need to bleed the whole system. With just the rears having been changed, I cannot see how air got into the rest of the system?:mad: gremlins?
 
Funnily enough , the filter in the brake fluid reservoir was absolutley full of crud. Took it out and cleaned it , black gunk, god knows if any of it managed to get into the brake system. I was careful in removing/cleaning it, but I bet the previous owner wasnt! I am fairly confident in my remedy for the rears and so I think that the problem does lie in air infiltration. Despite my moaning, the front discs look fair and the pads seem to be sweeping the whole disc, and so I am fairly confident that the pistons and are doing thier job, for the moment, but I will be changing them too in the not too distant future. Thank you everybody for sharing your thoughts.
 
I think you may be right. Its a pain in the backside to have to back track and fault find. Time is my enemy. The guy I baught it from was a right wally, maybee I am one too for buying it off him, however, as I commented earlier, I`m just moaning really, a couple of weekends and it will be purring like a kitten with a bad cough. Cant wait to get stuck in.
Finally, if anyone needs any encouragement or excuse to get rid of the EGR. Just do it. Took mine off, and what a massive difference, engine revs smoothly, particularly over 2500rpm, struggled before. Interested to see if MPG improves. Anyhow, best £35.00 I have ever spent with my clothes on. TTFN.Goodnight all.
 
Rockhopper said:
I think you may be right. Its a pain in the backside to have to back track and fault find. Time is my enemy. The guy I baught it from was a right wally, maybee I am one too for buying it off him, however, as I commented earlier, I`m just moaning really, a couple of weekends and it will be purring like a kitten with a bad cough. Cant wait to get stuck in.
Finally, if anyone needs any encouragement or excuse to get rid of the EGR. Just do it. Took mine off, and what a massive difference, engine revs smoothly, particularly over 2500rpm, struggled before. Interested to see if MPG improves. Anyhow, best £35.00 I have ever spent with my clothes on. TTFN.Goodnight all.
Click to expand...

Hi Rockhopper, just a piece of general info for you.

Re bleeding the brakes on your DII, by far the easiest and most effective way is to use the ABS pump, so you don't need to have someone pumping the footbrake.

Allow me to explain. Assuming you have a good strong battery, you can use the ABS pump so that each time you open a bleed nipple you 'turn on' the pump and she pumps out the old/contaminated fluid. You then close the bleed nipple and 'turn off' the pump.

There is a specific sequence for doing the bleeding which is the opposite of older Discos ie start with front left, then front right, then rear left then rear right.

So how do you get the abs modulator to act as a pump? Well you can use a Nanocom or Hawkeye diagnostic tool to activate the pump; or you can track the wires that supply juice to abs modulator and use a separate battery hook crocodile clips onto it, so you can connect and disconnect easily.

Re the wires, Fery is yer man!!!!!!

If you own a DII and do your own maintenance some form of diagnostic is a worthwhile investment.

Good luck

Dave
 
Hi Dave, thank you very much, after some deliberation I decided that the best thing to do was to replace the entire front end brake system, as I had the rear. Calipers, Pad carriers Discs, the lot. By friday morning, I should have a brand new set front and rear. from this point I will bleed the brakes as you have described and see if I can get them to behave.
I am definately up for looking into the possibility of owning my own diagnostic equipment. I have a little more time on my hands these days and want to restore this Disco to its former glory (I think it had a former glory). I will post again on Friday eveningwith glorious news of my victory over the brake Gremlins, or not. I may ask for help from any friendly person with the relevant software who lives in my neck of the woods (York).

Thanks once again Dave for your input.
 
Rockhopper said:
Hi Dave, thank you very much, after some deliberation I decided that the best thing to do was to replace the entire front end brake system, as I had the rear. Calipers, Pad carriers Discs, the lot. By friday morning, I should have a brand new set front and rear. from this point I will bleed the brakes as you have described and see if I can get them to behave.
I am definately up for looking into the possibility of owning my own diagnostic equipment. I have a little more time on my hands these days and want to restore this Disco to its former glory (I think it had a former glory). I will post again on Friday eveningwith glorious news of my victory over the brake Gremlins, or not. I may ask for help from any friendly person with the relevant software who lives in my neck of the woods (York).

Thanks once again Dave for your input.
Click to expand...


Hi there, if you go on the D2 Boys Club site (specialising in DII's) there is a section called Nanocom/Hawkeye locator (or something similar) and there is a list of peeps who have diag kit and are willing to help. I'm sure you'll find someone near to you who will help.

Dave
 
Rockhopper said:
Hi Dave, thank you very much, after some deliberation I decided that the best thing to do was to replace the entire front end brake system, as I had the rear. Calipers, Pad carriers Discs, the lot. By friday morning, I should have a brand new set front and rear. from this point I will bleed the brakes as you have described and see if I can get them to behave.
I am definately up for looking into the possibility of owning my own diagnostic equipment. I have a little more time on my hands these days and want to restore this Disco to its former glory (I think it had a former glory). I will post again on Friday eveningwith glorious news of my victory over the brake Gremlins, or not. I may ask for help from any friendly person with the relevant software who lives in my neck of the woods (York).

Thanks once again Dave for your input.
Click to expand...

Don't forget as James has said,
black **** in the master cylinder means it's from the seals
so you may have to replace the seals in the MC as well, but you should change the brake fluid regular as well.
 
Well, I think I have the solution to the problem. Had a second opinion from a local mechanic pal of mine who confirmed that I had bled the system properly , and he recons that I need to replace the master brake cylinder. I have a cunning plan though. Our local LR Dealer sells a re conditioning kit for £35.00 which contains all of the parts to repair the cylinder. However,when I rang them originally to ask for a new one, they omitted to mention that they sold these kits, but did advise me that they could lighten my wallet by £200 quid.No change there then . Will buy the kit and see if this fixes the long brake pedal trave/pressurising problem.l will post again after the fix, or not.
 
Hi dave, for what it is worth, master brake cylinder is poorly. Just bought a repair kit, genuine land rover part fom my local dealer and will fit it today. Hope it works, one of the LR mechanics did say that it can be a bit hit and miss depending upon the condition of the bore. Hope mine is more hit than miss.

Regards.

Paul
 
Forgot to add that I shall in fact see if I can contact someone in the York area to see if they have the diagnostic equipment to at least see all of the faults that exist. If my Disco was a person and I was a consultant doctor, I would probably have given it 3 months to live,or if it were a dog, and I were a vet, I would probably have shot it, or if I were a priest.........I think you get the point, but like Lazarus! I think that I can resurrect this one from the grave! With a bit of electronic wizadryness. I may become a Discovery GOD. Please help me someone!
 
Rockhopper said:
Hi dave, for what it is worth, master brake cylinder is poorly. Just bought a repair kit, genuine land rover part fom my local dealer and will fit it today. Hope it works, one of the LR mechanics did say that it can be a bit hit and miss depending upon the condition of the bore. Hope mine is more hit than miss.

Regards.

Paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul :)D:D), well I wish you the very best of luck with the seals kit, not done one myself.

After it's done you need to a do a really good bleed of the whole circuit, so using the abs pump will help alot. You'll need plenty of brake fluid as well - at least 2 x 500ml cans of dot4.

Each time I bleed a brake circuit I love the fact that the pump is working away (under your complete control) so you can concentrate on what condition of fluid is coming out (just don't forget to keep topping up or have someone do it for you) . So you can see the black change to clear and the bubble-laden change to bubble-free.

Just had a look on the D2 Boys Club site for diagnostic gear users near you and there are several, one in Scarborough and a number in and around Leeds.

Also have a look here: http://www.nanocom-locator.co.uk/

Good luck

Dave
 
Last edited:
I Did IT. The repair kit was fitted after lunchtime today and seems to have done the job! For now, quite amazing. With new pads and discs things are still a little bit wobbly though. I went for a test drive down our local lanes and managed to avoid the swarms of skinny arsed cyclists who insist on riding 12 abreast and the local wildlife on our quiet country back lanes, most of which seem to treat the A roads like animal dormitories. What are hedges and trees for anyway if not for perching on or hiding under? .But with each mile I travel, the brake pedal seems to travel a little less and on the final stretch home It was pulling up beautifully, only another 50/60 miles to go to bed the pads in properly. The Discs are lightly scored and I can see the sweep that the new pads are making. I might actually dare to go out and drive on a proper road with some real hazards a bit later on. The only downer is that there is still much more brake travel than I would like (or have been used to in the past) and I do not think that the repair kit is going to be a permanent long term solution. I will persist with it for a while and report back (hopefully not from a hospital bed). I was told by the LR dealer that success for the kit is really a 50/50 jobbie and that fitting the kit may in fact not cure the problem at all, but it is 100% better than it was, I just have nothing to compare them with. My last RR had Brembos on and stopped on a sixpence with very little brake travel. I guess that I will have to just adapt my driving style from Sterling Moss to Reginald Molehusband!
In conclusion, is it worth the bother of fitting a repair kit? Well for £35.00, why not. It takes less than an hour to fit, plus a bit for bleeding. I used the amount of brake fluid Dave suggested, just less than 2 litres, and the initial results are quite promising. The clutch is working OK, which is fed from the same reservoir but I really don’t know what determines the final outcome of whether the repair kit is successful or not. The piston looked to be in perfect condition with no wear or scoring, and I have changed all of the rubber seals and O rings (they were all supplied in the kit). The old ones were not in bad shape, but there were some really ****ty deposits that I could not see until I drained the brake fluid from the reservoir. But as you do not get an awful lot for £200.00 when it comes to changing the old master cylinder for a new one. I would definitely say, yes, give it a go.
 
Hi Dave, will try contacting some of those diagnostic boys you suggested on Sunday and see if I can`t meet up with one of them next weekend ish, if any of them will co operat/ or are around.

Thanks once again, much appreciated.
 
Rockhopper said:
Hi Dave, will try contacting some of those diagnostic boys you suggested on Sunday and see if I can`t meet up with one of them next weekend ish, if any of them will co operat/ or are around.

Thanks once again, much appreciated.
Click to expand...


Well Paul, it sounds like you are now the resident expert when it comes to DII brakes. You must be very pleased.

Cheers
Dave
 
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