Hi All

I have just bought a 2004 Discovery 2 Td5 which has replaced my old 1999 Isuzu Trooper 3.0TD Duty.

I have got a list of questions some of which might me something an nothing.

On the way home from picking it up from the dealer (a small independent trader) it broke down. I had stopped to put some diesel in after which it started running rough and was seriously lacking power. I pulled over after about 1/2 mile, stopped the vehicle then couldn't get it to start again. I double checked my fuel receipt just in case I had put petrol in by accident but is was definitely diesel. I tried several time to get it started and occasionally there was a warning tone, like a ding, ding, ding noise. After about 10 minutes it started again but was still running rough and lacking power. As I was nearer home than the dealer I limped it home and took it straight round to my mechanic friend.
He checked the injector harness which looked OK but found that oil had leaked down to the ECU plug. After cleaning this up the engine was running smoothly but still lacking power as the turbo wasn't kicking in.
I took it back to the dealer for them to investigate. They apparently fitted a new fuel pump to resolve the problem.

When I got the vehicle back home my mechanic friend though this sounded like a strange solution to the problem as most modern diesels wouldn't even start if the fuel pump is faulty, also he thought that logically they should have replaced the fuel filter at the same time but this doesn't look like it had been touched.

The turbo now kicks in but not until about 2000 revs and this is actually how it drove on the way home before it broke down. I can't really remember if this is how it drove during the test drive or not.

As the turbo doesn't kick in until 2000 revs it seems to struggle up steep hills unless you are going reasonably fast (obviously this isn't always an option round parked cars etc)

I bought the vehicle to tow a horse trailer, my horse being kept at the top of the steep hill in question, and I am a little concerned that is I attempt to go up the hill with my trailer and horse in that I won't have enough power. I certainly can't go flying up at speed.

I did tow my trailer up with out the horse in at the weekend and it felt like it was struggling in 2nd gear.

My Izusu would have managed this no problem with 2 horses in let alone an empty trailer. Have I just been spoiled with my Isuzu or is this not normal for the discovery.

The other few things I have questions about are:-

When I start the vehicle there is usually a grinding noise a few seconds after starting the engine.

Occasionally the three ding warning noise happens when I start it but there are no warning lights on the dash and I can't find anything in the handbook about what this noise might mean.

Usually it is either the grinding noise or the warning noise but sometimes it is both.

I can get the High/Low gear stick to move over to the diff lock position. It will not even budge in that direction. I did read somewhere that if you have TC then you don't have diff lock. Is this right? If so why is there a label next to the gear stick showing how to engage the diff lock.

When the TC engages there is a grinding noise that lasts 5 or 6 seconds, Is this normal?

Sorry to waffle on. I am sure there are other things that I have forgotten at the moment. The lack of power concerns me the most but answer to the other queries would be nice too.

Thanks

Hi

You might want to go introduce yourself before a few grumble at you

Grumbling noise after startup - this is probably the ABS doing a self test, ignore it.

Three dings is normal on a facelift D2 after startup.

Grinding noise with TC is the shuttle valves firing in the ABS block - normal.

Diff Lock, you will need to feel around underneath to see if the box actually has the spigot on and more importantly is connected to a linkage. Three possible scenarios: 1) no center diff lock, 2) centre diff lock but no linkage 3) has both centre diff lock and lever but the lever is seized due to lack of use (usually cable corroding inside the sleeve).

Performance, could be a LOT of things:
Duff MAF
Duff EGR
Duff Wastegate Modulator
Wastegate arm too long
Blocked cat in the down pipe
and more...

That injector harness (specifically the o-rings) needs replacing, it'll continue to drop oil down the engine harness otherwise. Even after replacing there will still be residual oil being drawn down via capillary action so you need to keep checking and cleaning.

The fuelling thing could be... duff pump (which they say they replaced), poor injector seals/washers (check oil level isnt high due to fuel dilution!), duff air bleed valve in the filter block, knakered filter, worst of worst a cracked cylinder head.

Chances are it's one of the simpler things, google the stuff suggested above and work through it.

That was a LONG first post - it would be a good idea to go to the "introduce yourself" section before asking for help.

However, let's pick out a few of the easy ones:

1. Traction Control (TC) - the way it works is by using the ABS braking system to slightly 'grab' a slipping wheel to help it get traction again. Whilst this is happening you will get the same (ABS) pulsing through the brake pedal and noise. The duration of this effect depends on the length of time it takes for the wheel to regain traction.

2. A std. TD5 does not have that much "get up and go" below 2000rpm especially if the MAF (Mass Air Flow) meter is not working correctly so get the supplying garage to the functioning of the various sensors - assuming they have the correct diagnostic gear to read a Land Rover product.

3. Re the Diff-lock selector - If you move the lever to the left, does the Diff-lock come on the dashboard? Can you move the selector firmly over to the right as you sit in the drivers seat, to ensure the diff-lock is disconnected. Now tell us what happens?

Really this a problem for the supplying garage to resolve - give them a chance to sort it out first.

Dave

Hi

Oops sorry, I didn't think about introducing myself first, how rude of me

Sorry it was a LONG first post but thanks for both of your speedy replies. I will ignore the strange (or not so strange) noises that it has been making

I agree about it being the responsibility of the supplying garage. It is only covered by warranty until 24th of this month as they only gave me one month warranty and the supplying garage is about 30 miles away so I want to try and get as much info as possible before I go back to them.

I also don't want to make an idiot of myself by going back to them for something that is actually normal and I am just not used to.

Dave re diff lock selector - when I tried I couldn't get the level to move to the left at all, not even a wobble in that direction. The level look like it is over to the right but I will try it later and post an update late.

Thanks again

you do NOT have 1 months warranty - you have 6 - read the crock of **** thread to find out the real situation.

good luck.

KLom81 said:

Hi

Oops sorry, I didn't think about introducing myself first, how rude of me

Sorry it was a LONG first post but thanks for both of your speedy replies. I will ignore the strange (or not so strange) noises that it has been making

I agree about it being the responsibility of the supplying garage. It is only covered by warranty until 24th of this month as they only gave me one month warranty and the supplying garage is about 30 miles away so I want to try and get as much info as possible before I go back to them.

I also don't want to make an idiot of myself by going back to them for something that is actually normal and I am just not used to.

Dave re diff lock selector - when I tried I couldn't get the level to move to the left at all, not even a wobble in that direction. The level look like it is over to the right but I will try it later and post an update late.

Thanks again

Click to expand...

It might be that you don't have difflock in that case, from 2001 it was no longer in the trans box Until 2003 when it came back, but only on the options list.

Dave

I think it is seized cable, mine was stiff the first time I tried it.

They do get up and go though so get yours fully checked over.

You wont have the diff lock !. If you had it and the cable was siezed yoy you would still have a small amount of left/right slack in the lever. ( just the same as the forward/backwards slack ).
Has it got H-N-L stamped o the top of the gear knob ?.

KLom81 said:

..........He checked the injector harness which looked OK but found that oil had leaked down to the ECU plug. After cleaning this up the engine was running smoothly but still lacking power as the turbo wasn't kicking in........................

Click to expand...

so for the rough running first thing to do is a new genuine injector loom ... only cleaning it is like a massage to a wooden leg

...and +1 that you dont have the diff-lock "hardware"

50 pence said:

You wont have the diff lock !. If you had it and the cable was siezed yoy you would still have a small amount of left/right slack in the lever. ( just the same as the forward/backwards slack ).
Has it got H-N-L stamped o the top of the gear knob ?.

Click to expand...

There is no slack either left or right and yes there is H-N-L stamped on the top of the level.

thebiglad said:

It might be that you don't have difflock in that case, from 2001 it was no longer in the trans box Until 2003 when it came back, but only on the options list.

Dave

Click to expand...

I think probably not as I can't get it to move to the right either. I'm just a bit confused as to why there is a sticker next to the lever explaining how to engage the diff lock, maybe they just put them in all vehicles just in case.

Mine has the sticker but NO difflock. It's a bit of a minefield as to which versions do/don't have it.

If the engine does nothing below 2,000revs, check the MAF sensor isn't dead.
Just unplug it (it lives in the large pipe that comes out of the air filter) This will make the ecu run on a default setting and if the power improves, there's one problem found.

You'll find the 3 chimes seem to be random but in fact tell you the electronics have completed a self check OK. The check only works if you switch on and wait until all the warning lights go out before cranking the engine. If you crank as soon as the pre-heater light goes out you don't let it complete the check hence no dings.

HTH

Malcolm

When I first started having bothers with me disco 1,I thought "sod it" trade it in for a disco 2"
Then I came back here, thank you LZ, disco 1' defender, series 1,2,3, aye nae probs, as for the later stuff, not a chance

Dads toy said:

Mine has the sticker but NO difflock. It's a bit of a minefield as to which versions do/don't have it.

If the engine does nothing below 2,000revs, check the MAF sensor isn't dead.
Just unplug it (it lives in the large pipe that comes out of the air filter) This will make the ecu run on a default setting and if the power improves, there's one problem found.

You'll find the 3 chimes seem to be random but in fact tell you the electronics have completed a self check OK. The check only works if you switch on and wait until all the warning lights go out before cranking the engine. If you crank as soon as the pre-heater light goes out you don't let it complete the check hence no dings.

HTH

Malcolm

Click to expand...

Hi Malcolm

Thanks, it doesn't help when they go wacking stickers for things that aren't on the vehicle does it. Thanks for clearing up the 3 ding thing too.

My mechanic friend is going to take it in to work tomorrow to have a look at the MAF but to add another twist to the tale he had a quick look at it today and thinks that the garage I bought it from haven't put a new fuel pump on it (which was apparently what they did when I took it back) as the carpets in the boot don't look like they have been touched/disturbed. If they haven't replaced the fuel pump what will they have done to get the turbo working again and why would they lie about it?

KLom81 said:

the garage I bought it from .....and why would they lie about it?

Click to expand...

There's your answer.

Or:

How do you know a car dealer is lying to you?

Their lips are moving!

Where you went wrong is you didn't take it straight back to the dealer and get your money back the moment it broke down!

KLom81 said:

he had a quick look at it today and thinks that the garage I bought it from haven't put a new fuel pump on it (which was apparently what they did when I took it back) as the carpets in the boot don't look like they have been touched/disturbed.

Click to expand...

I had the carpet up on my seven seater when I needed to move the tank, and it doesn't look like it has been touched.

Bit worried about "they changed the fuel pump as the turbo was not working"

The turbo is fairly simple really, it just whizzes round. One side is driven by the exhaust and the other stuffs air into the engine (through the intercooler). The only thing that would stop it stuffing air in, is the wastegate, which dumps the air when the pressure gets over a limit, stuck open.

If the engine is running then the turbo is turning (unless it's seized).

If the fuel pump is shagged then I can see it not delivering enough fuel to match the amount of air the turbo is shoving in hence poor performance.

You get the same symptoms from a duff MAF sensor as it tells the ecu there isn't much air going in so it then gives less fuel to match. As I said previously, just unplug it, the ecu then fuels it on a basic setting. You'll notice immediately you drive it if that's the problem as it will pull from low revs now. Mine did exactly that.

Let us know how you get on.

Malcolm

Dads toy said:

Bit worried about "they changed the fuel pump as the turbo was not working"

The turbo is fairly simple really, it just whizzes round. One side is driven by the exhaust and the other stuffs air into the engine (through the intercooler). The only thing that would stop it stuffing air in, is the wastegate, which dumps the air when the pressure gets over a limit, stuck open.

If the engine is running then the turbo is turning (unless it's seized).

If the fuel pump is shagged then I can see it not delivering enough fuel to match the amount of air the turbo is shoving in hence poor performance.

You get the same symptoms from a duff MAF sensor as it tells the ecu there isn't much air going in so it then gives less fuel to match. As I said previously, just unplug it, the ecu then fuels it on a basic setting. You'll notice immediately you drive it if that's the problem as it will pull from low revs now. Mine did exactly that.

Let us know how you get on.

Malcolm

Click to expand...

Yes this confused me and my friend, he couldn't understand how replacing the fuel pump would have solved the problem. When I took it back to the dealer it was like the engine wouldn't go about 2000 revs, it really struggled up hills (15 mph max) but would run reasonably ok if you I managed to find a downhill stretch of road. I'm let you know how he's got on with it today.

I had the same problem with my MAF. No power, turbo lag to beat the band. Having had the same problems with other cars and also having read on here. That even if you buy a new one it may not be the Mae West. Then I stumbled on a posting here about bypassing the MAF. Bridging tow wires on the ECU plugs. I found a wonder wiring PDF online and down loaded it. It gives every wire and plug on a Disco 2, also colour codes and numbers of all connections on all plugs. Anyway I bypassed the MAF at ECU plugs and it was like having a totally different motor. Pulls really well thru the full range even at low revs and sounds totally deferent, really sweet..