Vagabondrobb · Oct 24, 2019

Hey guys, so I posted a thread recently attempting to diagnose engine cut out/non start, thought it was fuel related/ECU to begin with, but after eliminating all the obvious stuff a horrible noise gradually appeared and got worse, which you can hear in this video

Local mechanic thinks it’s crank related - possibly bearings worn thin and flipped onto themselves. Noise isn’t coming from belts, seems to be coming from directly below rear of engine block. Signs of metal particles in the oil too.

Fault codes (Snap on) as as follows:

6 Air flow circuit fault
20 Air Flow circuit fault
22 inlet air temperature circuit fault
96 Road speed missing fault
135 Injector 1 open circuit detected

Fuel is getting to the injectors and the timing is spot on...

I’m pretty sure this disco has had its day.

What do you guys think?

flat · Oct 24, 2019

worth pulling the sump off and looking at whats what?
if the rest of the vehicle is in good order could you just slap in a secondhand engine or get a short block?
Depends how spendy you want to get though

Bantam1 · Oct 24, 2019

Yeah get the sump off and have a proper look at things.
If its metal on metal it needs the sump off first.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 24, 2019

Yep, will do. I'm currently 150 miles away from home so I'm gonna have to leave the landy where it is and return better equipped in a few weeks (it's parked at my girlfriends parents).

flat said:
worth pulling the sump off and looking at whats what?
if the rest of the vehicle is in good order could you just slap in a secondhand engine or get a short block?
Depends how spendy you want to get though

The engine was the best bit about her! Lovely old 10p, clean as a whistle and pulled like a train. Sad face.

Si Click · Oct 24, 2019

Don't write her off yet. Pull the sump check the big end bearings and the crankshaft. It could just be the bearings that are worn.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 25, 2019

Si Click said:
Don't write her off yet. Pull the sump check the big end bearings and the crankshaft. It could just be the bearings that are worn.

Will do!

Vagabondrobb · Oct 26, 2019

So didn’t manage to get the sump completely out as I was only equipped with a single jack and a few spanners, but something metal has definitely met a brutal end. Large shreds of whatever it is/was (still thinking a bearing) left in the pan. Couldn’t get anywhere close enough to looked directly up at the bearings or crank, or remove the inner casing, but all else looked fine. Planning on getting back up there with another jack, more spanners and some axel stands next week for final diagnoses!

Metal in the sump:

Couldn’t remove the inner casing - job for next week

Flywheel looking ok

brianconwy · Oct 26, 2019

When I first saw the bits of metal I thought it looked like bits of piston ring/piston but on watching the video it sounds like something else.

Stanleysteamer · Oct 27, 2019

Those bits of metal look too oddly shaped to me to be bearings, looks like bits of ally. Oil pump?

Vagabondrobb · Oct 27, 2019

brianconwy said:
When I first saw the bits of metal I thought it looked like bits of piston ring/piston but on watching the video it sounds like something else.

Mechanic came to look at it and thought it could be worn bearings which have slipped together and is somehow jamming the shaft, but that seems unlikely to me.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 27, 2019

Stanleysteamer said:
Those bits of metal look too oddly shaped to me to be bearings, looks like bits of ally. Oil pump?

Good shout but the bolt was still securely in there and everything looked fine.

But yeah, the metal seems to be some kind of aluminium alloy.

Some shreds look quite finely shaved!

Stanleysteamer · Oct 27, 2019

If it was jamming the shaft, then the shaft wouldn't turn at all, but from the video it is moving.

Stanleysteamer · Oct 27, 2019

Is there enough metal there to possibly make up a bit of the bottom half of a big end? As if one of the bolts had let go and part of it got bust off, scraped off, whatever?

Vagabondrobb · Oct 27, 2019

Possibly but hard to tell as there are many smaller chips/particles hiding in the oil, and I haven’t even checked the filters yet. I will jack the chassis up on stands and remove the sump completely this week and look to check the big ends etc. Is it pretty straight forward to remove the crankshaft casing? I’ve never messed about on the inside of an engine before!

Stanleysteamer · Oct 28, 2019

Vagabondrobb said:
Possibly but hard to tell as there are many smaller chips/particles hiding in the oil, and I haven’t even checked the filters yet. I will jack the chassis up on stands and remove the sump completely this week and look to check the big ends etc. Is it pretty straight forward to remove the crankshaft casing? I’ve never messed about on the inside of an engine before!

You've got quite a big job on your hands if you have never taken a crankshaft out before. On some engines it is possible to split the big ends and push each piston up out of the way then remove the main bearings from the block and then drop the crankshaft out, but I suspect that this will not be easy with the engine in situ. You'll have to take the gearbox and flywheel off for a start. As well as anything connected to the front of the crank. Look at RAVE and/or the Haynes manual. If it IS possible and this is where the problem lies, then you may be able to do this, get the crankshaft reground, fit new thicker bearings and then put it all back together, but if this is your first time playing around inside an engine I really wouldn't recommend it.

Bantam1 · Oct 28, 2019

You'll need to get it moved to somewhere you can work on it properly.
It's still parked at your girlfriend's parents isn't it?
Not sure what can be fixed from below but other engines (200tdi, etc.) most things, so this shouldn't be any different.
Trouble with the TD5 is it's heavy, everything is.

Si Click · Oct 28, 2019

I think Stanleysteamer is correct about the difficulties in swapping a crankshaft in situ. You would certainly have to take the gearbox off in order to get at the crankshaft rear oil seal, and the head would need to come off to remove the timing gear. If you can remove the bottom shells of the big ends, it should be possible to check the crank for severe damage to the journals, but I'm not sure it is possible to check for ovality with the crank in situ. If you need to move it, then if the bearings are shot but there is no obvious damage to the crank, you might consider flushing any remaining debris, changing the oil filters, swapping the big end bearings and driving carefully to somewhere more convenient. If the crank is out of round it will kill the new bearings pretty quickly, but you should get a few hundred miles.

Stanleysteamer · Oct 28, 2019

+1 ^^^

brianconwy · Oct 28, 2019

It will take a lot of torque to remove the crank pulley and it might not even be the problem.

Vagabondrobb · Oct 28, 2019

Thanks guys. Yeah I’m not planning on attempting any major while she’s where she is - I just want to try and establish the root of the problem and then make a plan (tow it somewhere).

So guess my question really should have been - What should I be checking, and what is achievable, without removing anything big?

Si are the bottoms shells removable with the sump off?

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