doriz
Well-Known Member
We expecting an engine fire
doriz
Well-Known Member
I’ll order three.
Tigger Eeyore & Roo
Well-Known Member
He’s no better than the disreputable end of the Chinese industry in ripping off another manufacturer’s IP and passing it off as their own.
He won’t be seeing any of my ££££…
He won’t be seeing any of my ££££…
Cristoforo
Member
Well I love my land rovers and I'll keep them for as long as I have breath, but my name's on one these, this is what land rover should have made, I heard from a friend in the forces that has been testing one of these and that they are planning on putting a order in for them, I think LR has missed a trick here really I do, they turned their back on the working / military market and some one has stepped in and grabbed it
Tigger Eeyore & Roo
Well-Known Member
What military market?
The military have very few Defenders left as they’ve moved on to vehicles with much better protection against IED’s.
What utility market?
There are much cheaper and more practical options from manufacturers that they can never compete on on price, from the farmer’s quad bike to any number of Far Eastern and Chinese four door pickups.
The military have very few Defenders left as they’ve moved on to vehicles with much better protection against IED’s.
What utility market?
There are much cheaper and more practical options from manufacturers that they can never compete on on price, from the farmer’s quad bike to any number of Far Eastern and Chinese four door pickups.
tottot
Well-Known Member
The problem the military have now having pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq is they now have a heap of expensive to run around in IED resistant vehicles and not enough heavy front line types like APC's. Given the size of today's army how many every day run arounds do they need anyway ?
lightning
Well-Known Member
Well, there's obviously a commercial market for a vehicle like this, as the new Jimny is completely sold out with buyers paying £5-10,000 over list price to get one.
The Jimny on paper doesn't perform well on road, for instance it struggles to achieve 90mph flat out.
But buyers are queuing up for them.
Only problem with the Grenadier is the price, starts at £45,000 plus OTR costs which a lot, although no more than a Jeep Wrangler.
The Jimny on paper doesn't perform well on road, for instance it struggles to achieve 90mph flat out.
But buyers are queuing up for them.
Only problem with the Grenadier is the price, starts at £45,000 plus OTR costs which a lot, although no more than a Jeep Wrangler.
Tigger Eeyore & Roo
Well-Known Member
You’ve summed up both Land Rover’s and even Ineos’ problem in a nutshell:
Neither can afford to build a utility car for the prices that the natural utility car buyers are prepared to pay.
Neither can afford to build a utility car for the prices that the natural utility car buyers are prepared to pay.
Bonnie dog, unusual colour for a border collie.
Tigger Eeyore & Roo
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
He is a bill unusual, it’s known as a “Red Merle” and he’s got mostly bright blue eyes, with the odd patch of amber.
Sadly, he’s knocking on a bit now as Ben’s just about to reach his 13th birthday.
lightning
Well-Known Member
Suzuki have managed it for under £20,000. lf Suzuki can build a modern day Defender (read quiet, no leaks, well made, refined, well equipped, but still with a live axle 4x4 drivetrain and excellent off road) at that price, why can't anybody else?
Tigger Eeyore & Roo
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that the Suzuki Jimney is even remotely close to either the Defender, or the Grenadier? Don’t get me wrong, It’s a useful, cheap, simple and compact 4x4 with a serious following - but it’s not in the same market.
Suzuki are good at building basic and cheap cars and don’t have a premium reputation to trash; why would another manufacturer want to invest so much money at the, next-to-zero margin, bottom end of the market, a market that Suzuki already serve so well?
lightning
Well-Known Member
Actually the new Jimny is very close to the old Defender, except that it's more car like to drive and is less compromised when used on road.
l guess it's how the Defender could have ended up, if Land Rover had continued to invest in it.
Underneath it's almost identical to Defender,
The only thing is, it needs to be about 25% larger to be a true Defender alternative. As it is, it's just a bit too small which reduces the towing capacity and makes it look a bit toy-like.
Doesn't affect it's off road ability though. lt's got full electronic traction control and low range with HDC
Suzuki are doing well out of the Jimny, the original price in 2018 was around £16,000 but it ended up at £20,000 and still sold out almost as soon as it was introduced.
lt's only been stifled in the U.K. due to emissions as there's no hybrid version.
However in other countries it's readily available but with a long waiting list due to popularity.
This is despite road test reviews saying it's compromised when used on road.
l guess it's how the Defender could have ended up, if Land Rover had continued to invest in it.
Underneath it's almost identical to Defender,
The only thing is, it needs to be about 25% larger to be a true Defender alternative. As it is, it's just a bit too small which reduces the towing capacity and makes it look a bit toy-like.
Doesn't affect it's off road ability though. lt's got full electronic traction control and low range with HDC
Suzuki are doing well out of the Jimny, the original price in 2018 was around £16,000 but it ended up at £20,000 and still sold out almost as soon as it was introduced.
lt's only been stifled in the U.K. due to emissions as there's no hybrid version.
However in other countries it's readily available but with a long waiting list due to popularity.
This is despite road test reviews saying it's compromised when used on road.
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tottot
Well-Known Member
It is my opinion Land Rover well and truly sailed with the right boat with the launch of the Discovery one in 89, they then totally missed the boat with the failure to produce a proper commercial version in the 90's [ I know there was one but it was just a normal Disco with no seats and blanked windows ]
What was needed was a vehicle that was Disco to the back of the front seats and the a choice of separate working body's at the rear much like the Landy's had. A LWB version could have been crew cab like many of the other makes in todays market way before they became popular.
A natural end for the Defender as we know it would have been at the end of 300tdi production or possibly TD5
What was needed was a vehicle that was Disco to the back of the front seats and the a choice of separate working body's at the rear much like the Landy's had. A LWB version could have been crew cab like many of the other makes in todays market way before they became popular.
A natural end for the Defender as we know it would have been at the end of 300tdi production or possibly TD5
lightning
Well-Known Member
l would love to put my name down for a Grenadier, but at £50,000 it's out of my reach.
Clearly not for others though, they've got 15,000 deposits.
The front grille/headlights look slightly strange, a bit like a 1980's British Leyland car. l guess you get used to how the original Defender looks.
Clearly not for others though, they've got 15,000 deposits.
The front grille/headlights look slightly strange, a bit like a 1980's British Leyland car. l guess you get used to how the original Defender looks.
Corfewoodsman
Active Member
After such anticipation, 15,000 reservations doesn't seem that many to me and I guess Mr Ineos is savvy enough to pull the plug if it becomes a money pit. Also, a wide range of variants needs to be available to give it a fighting chance..
I personally find Tigger's Ben far more interesting than an unimaginative reincarnation of someone else's archaic design. As would my Hinny pictured here.
bluedog333
Well-Known Member
I like it, I’d have one if I had the money. Buy British! …oh wait… buy French!
lightning
Well-Known Member
Would you have the Grenadier, or one of the new Defenders?
The new Defender starts at £47,000 although that's the Commercial version with no rear seats.
The cheapest saloon version is £58,000
lt's become the "car to be seen in" round here, piloted by posh, steely eyed mums on the school run.
The new Defender starts at £47,000 although that's the Commercial version with no rear seats.
The cheapest saloon version is £58,000
lt's become the "car to be seen in" round here, piloted by posh, steely eyed mums on the school run.
