The guy is clearly advocating using the ID fraudulently. Whatever way you try and dress it up, that is totally inexcusable, as that ID can not be legally used on any other vehicle. Arseholes like this are one of the reasons that Land Rover theft is so high as well as VED fraud.
 
martin1512 said:
The guy is clearly advocating using the ID fraudulently. Whatever way you try and dress it up, that is totally inexcusable, as that ID can not be legally used on any other vehicle. Arseholes like this are one of the reasons that Land Rover theft is so high as well as VED fraud.
Click to expand...

Well said, he does actually do a little bit more than hint as to what to do with the I.D after the sale.
 
ebbadger said:
stems from many moons ago when I owned a lightweight bodied tax exempt range rover... built in 92 and got sick to the back teeth of being told it was a ringer by people who made wrong assumptions when they saw a coiled tax exempt lightweight :) I even came across a post on a forum at the time calling me a criminal who deserved to crash and get nicked....... put them straight very quickly

Cheers Steve
Click to expand...

Hi Steve... care to expand on this one a bit? There is not the detail in your post for me to exactly understand what your saying, so, don't want to pass judgement without understanding the situation... my immediate thought (which i am sure is the same as many) is that coil sprung light weights were not built (i don't think) and to modify a light weight to be coil sprung would involve modifications to the chassis which would result in an instant loss of tax free status as per the VOSA / DVLA guidelines... I am sure this is the "backlash" you are referring to from several forums, so, would be interested in what the actual situation is...
 
martin1512 said:
The guy is clearly advocating using the ID fraudulently. Whatever way you try and dress it up, that is totally inexcusable, as that ID can not be legally used on any other vehicle. Arseholes like this are one of the reasons that Land Rover theft is so high as well as VED fraud.
Click to expand...

absolutely correct it cannot be used on another vehicle but can be rebuilt with new parts like for like.......

to be honest the buyer would be pretty stupid ringing a stolen motor with this id as on a coiler a tax exempt plate screams pull and check me mr policeman....

an ringer with a brain should ring a stolen motor with a safer believable reg

as for ved fraud we would be better off spending our time reporting the hundreds of tax exempt 90 / 110's on series id's (when the offence is being commited) assuming of course there is reasonable proof that they were built post 1998 and not before.

Interestingly enough the last chassis and id ebay advert i posted should definitely be viewed as dodgy for those that arent up to speed on early range rovers they had rear shockers mounted n/s in front of the axle/spring seat, d/s behind the axle/spring seat, the 'tax exempt' chassis in this picture has both in front of the rear turrets so is clearly a much later non tax exempt chassis.... so is it stolen??? who knows??

Cheers Steve
 
Bump said:
Hi Steve... care to expand on this one a bit? There is not the detail in your post for me to exactly understand what your saying, so, don't want to pass judgement without understanding the situation... my immediate thought (which i am sure is the same as many) is that coil sprung light weights were not built (i don't think) and to modify a light weight to be coil sprung would involve modifications to the chassis which would result in an instant loss of tax free status as per the VOSA / DVLA guidelines... I am sure this is the "backlash" you are referring to from several forums, so, would be interested in what the actual situation is...
Click to expand...

yep happy to, it was built pre 1998 so prior to the points system & sva being introduced, no loss of registration and no loss of tax status

Many people jump up and down screaming ringer everytime they see something out of the ordinary but there are a lot of pre 98 hybrids that are perfectly legit... hence the reason there are several perfectly legal coiled series ones out there.

Thats what makes it such a minefield and not as straight forward as people think to spot a definite 'ringer' unfortunately many people leap on a soapbox without really knowing a lot about the subject

Cheers Steve
 
Last edited:
ebbadger said:
absolutely correct it cannot be used on another vehicle but can be rebuilt with new parts like for like.......
Click to expand...
FFS! No it cannot. If a vehicle is built using like for like parts, then it can be given an age related plate that relates to the newest relevant component, e.g if a vehicle is built using a mixture of parts from a 1973 and 1978 series 3, then it will be issued with a new 1978 registration.
 
It was built prior to 1973 ( to qualify for tax free )and modified prior to 1998 ( when the points system & sva )?

Do I understand this correctly
 
martin1512 said:
FFS! No it cannot. If a vehicle is built using like for like parts, then it can be given an age related plate that relates to the newest relevant component, e.g if a vehicle is built using a mixture of parts from a 1973 and 1978 series 3, then it will be issued with a new 1978 registration.
Click to expand...

What mixture of parts??? eh?

if a tax exempt vehicle is rebuilt from the ground up using brand new like for like parts you are fine, nobody has mentioned mix and matching parts from 1978 or have i missed something??

Quite right and I would agree with what you have put about mix n match but where has that observation come from??

Cheers Steve
 
Like for like = produced in the year that the "project" is going to be registered as
or
new parts of original spec

Please clarify as i'm trying to understand this
 
ebbadger said:
What mixture of parts??? eh?

if a tax exempt vehicle is rebuilt from the ground up using brand new like for like parts you are fine, nobody has mentioned mix and matching parts from 1978 or have i missed something??

Quite right and I would agree with what you have put about mix n match but where has that observation come from??

Cheers Steve
Click to expand...
Here. Registering a reconstructed classic vehicle : Directgov - Motoring
If it is made from entirely new like for like parts, then it is classed as a reproduction and will be given a registration that relates to the date it was built.
This page is also relevant for vehicle built on new chassis. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motorin...carrebuildorradicallyalteredvehicle/DG_191069
 
martin1512 said:
FFS! No it cannot. If a vehicle is built using like for like parts, then it can be given an age related plate that relates to the newest relevant component, e.g if a vehicle is built using a mixture of parts from a 1973 and 1978 series 3, then it will be issued with a new 1978 registration.
Click to expand...

Ah re read your post above, I think you may have missed the word new in my post? you cant use newer secondhand parts I think is the point you are trying to make which is why I specified 'new'

Cheers Steve
 
If you use "NEW" parts, then it cannot be registered as a classic vehicle, it will be classed as a reproduction and given a new registration. There is no way you can ever legally use an ID on a vehicle that has been issued to any other vehicle.
 
Freelaner said:
Thats kinda what i was thinking it would be, in effect, new.
Click to expand...

this is where you are confusing building a brand new reproduction against completely restoring an original vehicle

you can buy a brand new chassis... you will not lose the points or the reg but need a receipt to prove new

you can fit a brand new remanafactured original type engine, gearbox and braking system as per original spec and not lose points or registration

imagine you had a series 1, new chassis from Richards will not affect status or reg or points

remanafactured replacement engine will not change status as long as it is as per original and not an 200tdi or such

remanafactured gearbox again no issue

new brake drums , new springs, new shoes

all will not cause you to lose its id

Body counts for nothing in the case of a landy

All this must be noted is post SVA (ie after 1998) prior to this there were no such rules and there are many legit radically altered vehicles that post 1998 would have been classed as radically altered and required SVA and at one time a Q plate or nowadays often an age related plate dependant on build / component age.

Ive built kit cars, rods, V8'd tansit recovery vans etc etc as a teen in my uncles garage late 80's to mid 90's and you could do pretty much as you pleased

SVA put a stop to this post 98 and things got far tighter, you can still do all this but will fall foul of sva and the radically altered status meaning either a standard or enhanced sva is required.

however sva is not needed for a straight forward restoration of an old classic, it is simply a rebuild, up until recently I was still visiting his garage and joining in although it moved into the MG field and as i have said you can rebuild from the ground up using all new heritage parts and it will still be on its original plate.... however you could also build a brand new vehicle without starting with a rusted wreck and register as a new vehicle and get a brand new plate.... restore & rebuild compared to new build

Cheers Steve

Cheers Steve
 
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martin1512 said:
Here. Registering a reconstructed classic vehicle : Directgov - Motoring
If it is made from entirely new like for like parts, then it is classed as a reproduction and will be given a registration that relates to the date it was built.
This page is also relevant for vehicle built on new chassis. Registering a rebuilt vehicle : Directgov - Motoring
Click to expand...

Martin, we are going in circles....nobody is talking about an unregistered vehicle, that is when you build a classic car from scratch with period parts and so the link is irrelevant.

To be perfectly clear I am talking about restoring a vehicle that has an id... ie a REGISTERED VEHICLE that has a logbook

as I stated you are confusing a new build using age related parts or new build with new parts with the whole point of my post restoring a REGISTERED CLASSIC VEHICLE

yes you are right an unregistered vehicle will be post SVA and subject to all you have pointed out but this has nothing at all to do with an existing registered vehicle

The second link explains the new chassis part and also the two major components again you are confusing what it means, the two major components do not have to be the ones it left the factory with... thats almost unheard of for a 40, 50, 60 year old car but they must be as per the original, you dont lose points because you mgb engine is a recon from rimmers but you do if its a twin cam alfa lump that never originally lived there, a remanafactured gearbox as per original is fine but a 5 speed ford box is a no-no etc

although point to note a gearbox alone could be altered and you would still have enough points to qualify for the original reg, likewise just an engine theoretically as long as it didnt require chassis mods

Cheers Steve
 
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to clarify your first link with an example... you find a rare 1920's car tucked in a scrap yard, you know its make and model but it has no id, no plates and has been there for 50 years so no log book. You contact the owners club and restore using period parts and then want to register it....

This is an unregistered classic as per your first link, no log book, no id but a genuine old classic

totally different to a registered classic that has an id and logbook

Hopefully that clears it up

Cheers |Steve
 
Right from the start I was referring to buying an ID from one vehicle to use on another, as the guy on the ad was advocating. This is never legal under any circumstance. Also I will disagree with you on the restored classic side othings too. If you apply the strict letter of the law, you cannot use gearbox, engine, chassis, or axles that are less than 25 years old on a restored classic if you wish to keep the age related plates. You can however use refurbished parts. But as I said, that is going by the strict interpretation of the law, and we all know that most people do use new parts that are built to the original specifications. That is why you can find many "classic" vehicles that are identical in every respect to the original vehicle, but no part of them is more than 5 years old. Which kind of takes the **** really.
 
actually this does raise an interesting point, if i take my 1989 station wagon replace the chassis with a new richards chassis but td5 spec at 1200 quid, td5 engine n box n all bits 5000, 1000 for odds n sods spray n carpet the already straight body could i then re register using the age related criteria and flog the finished bodge as a 2012 TD5 station wagon, newly registered and make 20 grand profit??

I see a cunning plan on the cards :)

Cheers Steve
 
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