D90mitch
Well-Known Member
I am sure I saw somewhere a bigger 'heat sink' for transfer boxes to keep them cooler on longer journeys - quite a common modification to Defenders in the Australian outback from what I have seen given the temperature and very long distances. Might be worth a look at them.
Summat like this:
Summat like this:
Hub
Active Member
Thanks for this, I'm looking at cooling sump plates. What I'd like to know is, if I don't fit cooling ribs, what kind of damage, if any, can I expect to the transfer box as a result of this heat? Or is it just about the discomfort for the driver? I can't see me ever having to wear Woolley socks or a duffle?
tacr2man
Well-Known Member
You are getting worried about nothing , if it was down to excess heat being radiated from drivetrain , then your gearbox etc would have died long ago.
From years of experience , I can tell you its down to the warmer than average weather we are having lately , Land rovers operating in hot climates (eg Australia ) have had this problem for years , its down to the ali, being a particularly good conductor , In Australia with a V8 you can feel the heat radiating from the seatbase thru the carpet.
It is not possible to touch any of the metal attached to that area of the vehicle , I have even seen series vehicles with opening flaps set into the front portion of the side doors to try and get some cooling air into that footwell area . The air is coming in thru rad and getting heated as it needs to be or the engine would overheat . It also picks up heat from exhaust system . Even the old series landies , had heatshields fitted to the exhaust pipe both underwing and underfloor , to address this very problem .
The final word is , there's nothing you can do about it ! , apart from covering the hot areas inside the cab , as even putting insulation in the engine bay will still allow conductive heating from a small exposed areas. Wrapping exhaust with a good quality insulating strip will help a little , and also trying to get air that has not gone thru rad , ala little vents on TD5 front wings , etc might drop it a bit , not much tho.
We used to cook meat pies , and taters underbonnet , so look at the positives , winter , and shivering in front of defender will be back soon enough
From years of experience , I can tell you its down to the warmer than average weather we are having lately , Land rovers operating in hot climates (eg Australia ) have had this problem for years , its down to the ali, being a particularly good conductor , In Australia with a V8 you can feel the heat radiating from the seatbase thru the carpet.
It is not possible to touch any of the metal attached to that area of the vehicle , I have even seen series vehicles with opening flaps set into the front portion of the side doors to try and get some cooling air into that footwell area . The air is coming in thru rad and getting heated as it needs to be or the engine would overheat . It also picks up heat from exhaust system . Even the old series landies , had heatshields fitted to the exhaust pipe both underwing and underfloor , to address this very problem .
The final word is , there's nothing you can do about it ! , apart from covering the hot areas inside the cab , as even putting insulation in the engine bay will still allow conductive heating from a small exposed areas. Wrapping exhaust with a good quality insulating strip will help a little , and also trying to get air that has not gone thru rad , ala little vents on TD5 front wings , etc might drop it a bit , not much tho.
We used to cook meat pies , and taters underbonnet , so look at the positives , winter , and shivering in front of defender will be back soon enough
I used to keep a single duvet in my 200tdi-engined Series III. In winter the kids put it over their legs, and on hot summer days we wrapped it around the tunnel and seatbox front, and put our feet on it.
Multiple layers of cheap alu foil under the mats will help a lot. Aircraft jet engines are wrapped with it to stop them heating things that they shouldn't.
I should add that my main gearbox was dying (very noisy) and the transfer box probably not far behind it. The more noise they make, the more heat they make. For that reason I'd suggest that you do all you can to help yours. New and good quality oil often!
Multiple layers of cheap alu foil under the mats will help a lot. Aircraft jet engines are wrapped with it to stop them heating things that they shouldn't.
I should add that my main gearbox was dying (very noisy) and the transfer box probably not far behind it. The more noise they make, the more heat they make. For that reason I'd suggest that you do all you can to help yours. New and good quality oil often!
Hub
Active Member
Thank you, you're right...it's common sense. It heated up really quickly today, after about 15 miles, I did think that the weather contributed. It's a relief to hear it's not only me! I'll try not to worry so much. If you see a naked (ish) woman driving a 110 in a Devon'ly direction, then you'll know the heat got the better of me!! Everyone's got to have their own take on driving a Landy! They're all so unique! Thanks again
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
You are getting worried about nothing , if it was down to excess heat being radiated from drivetrain , then your gearbox etc would have died long ago.
From years of experience , I can tell you its down to the warmer than average weather we are having lately , Land rovers operating in hot climates (eg Australia ) have had this problem for years , its down to the ali, being a particularly good conductor , In Australia with a V8 you can feel the heat radiating from the seatbase thru the carpet.
It is not possible to touch any of the metal attached to that area of the vehicle , I have even seen series vehicles with opening flaps set into the front portion of the side doors to try and get some cooling air into that footwell area . The air is coming in thru rad and getting heated as it needs to be or the engine would overheat . It also picks up heat from exhaust system . Even the old series landies , had heatshields fitted to the exhaust pipe both underwing and underfloor , to address this very problem .
The final word is , there's nothing you can do about it ! , apart from covering the hot areas inside the cab , as even putting insulation in the engine bay will still allow conductive heating from a small exposed areas. Wrapping exhaust with a good quality insulating strip will help a little , and also trying to get air that has not gone thru rad , ala little vents on TD5 front wings , etc might drop it a bit , not much tho.
We used to cook meat pies , and taters underbonnet , so look at the positives , winter , and shivering in front of defender will be back soon enough
transfer boxes do produce heat which is why gear boxes use thin oil as it cools better and gears dont create as much heat moving it ,and oil coolers
tacr2man
Well-Known Member
While I lived in Australia , Redline did a proving trial with TNT freight , their roadtrain runs From Perth to Darwin and back , about 8000kms return . the power divider diff oil used to last one trip ! They replaced with Redline synthetic oil, it had lasted 7 trips last I heard , without any deterioration , and their telemetry had dropped peak temp, climbing the Darling escarpment , by over 80C , a bit of an extreme example but shows the difference the right lubricant and modern tech can make .
blackstrat
Well-Known Member
Boo! Thought this was a thread about tina2709
Yes, we still don't know that there's anything on Hub's machine operating outside normal design tolerances. Whilst gearboxes do get warm, the major source of heat is the engine and radiator. Only a small proportion of the calories in that oil we burn goes into pushing the car forward. It's particularly noticeable when driving steadily at above 40 mph as the air is blowing through and hitting the bulkhead, getting funnelled down the transmission tunnel and making fancy Mandelbrot turbulence patterns under the seatbox. All of which enables it to give up its heat, like a heat exchanger, so it's rapidly conducted through into the cab and ultimately into the passengers. You'll just have to get sweaty and keep the windows open.
Hub
Active Member
Yes Brown, I think you're right, and as you suggested in an earlier post, to put the A/C on and let them fight it out. But... I am still concerned about damage being done by such intense heat. I will keep an eye on my levels, and always use good quality oil - there should be no shortcuts on something so valuable.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
its a well know condition if engine was producing too much heat it show on gauge or over heat , drive a series 3 hard on a long journey and ep90 will over heat, obviously its more noticeable on hot days
Hub
Active Member
Yes, as mentioned, the gauge is normal, engine is not overheating. The heat in the cab starts in between the handbrake and gear mound, then transfers around the box, under the seats , along transmission tunnel etc. I looked underneath, nothing obvious, I've checked levels, all well... As suggested earlier maybe I'm worrying too much. But it's not pleasant, and I keep expecting flames to shoot out of the base of the hand brake!! And...I'm worrying that in time the gearbox will reveal the results and need to be replaced?!
Yes, I've had this problem with a Series II Forward Control we used to have in the mid 1980s. If we bought a load of sand in Taunton and took it home over the Quantock hills the transmission would be very warm indeed by the time we arrived. The later ones don't seem to have the same problem. Even if the gearbox is getting a bit warm (and I think she'd need to be towing uphill to do that), the major source of heat has still got to be the engine, 'cos that's actually got a fire inside it.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
engine obviously produces heat but so does thick oil in transmissions ,thick oil cause drag which creates heat
Well, the ATF in automatic transmissions can even ignite in some circumstances, but the Land Rover engine is burning a litre about every five miles, so you'd need a very savage gearbox indeed to keep up with that rate of heat output. After all, it's more than most central heating boilers can burn. Plus if it were the gearbox you'd get a lot of other symptoms - noise, vibration, fumes, poor gear changes. My money's still on the engine. Anyway, time for bed now.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
autos produce most of their heat because of torque converters, transfer of energy cant be 100% unless its physical ,so just poodling around will cause heat
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
your wrong , but think of if you turn gears in thin oil its easy but harder with thick oil wheres the extra power gone to do that gone at the wheels or heat
