Yes, that's right, and a timing tool will compensate for all that and give a proper tuning.

Knut Eggum said:

Yes, that's right, and a timing tool will compensate for all that and give a proper tuning.

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The timing tool is dependent on the camshaft position.

The camshaft timing can be adjusted (as specified in operation A2-27 in the green book). It is possible that the position of the distributor pump / injector pump drive shaft gears are slightly out of whack - this could explain why you think that 22 degrees is the better number. The point that isn't made clear in the green book - which has been made here in this thread - is that camshaft timing is very important - it has a knock on effect for the IP timing.

If you are going to try and get your engine to be adjusted to exact numerical values: The camshaft timing ought to be checked first.

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I get the impression that you like numbers and that you wish to do things properly. I think that is great (I too have been messing about with degree wheels - measuring piston heights - checking that the EP mark on the flywheel is indeed at the correct position - and measuring cam lobe heights - so I can get my engine nicely timed {Link can be provided if you want}) BUT I've come to the conclusion that Land Rovers just weren't made as well as Mercedes!

Land Rovers use woolly Lucas CAV stuff - it just isn't like the Mercedes / Bosch pumps - different breed.

(I'll probably upset a few here by saying this but)

If you want to geek out with numbers and settings - buy a Mercedes

It is all a bit "Dick Strawbridge" here in the Land Rover world



Nice enough chap - but not really accurate - especially with a hammer in his hand (!)

Is it you Stretch on th picture? You look like my neighbor who makes round balls for me. It's your car in th background I presume.

I fully agree that Land Rover (generally English cars from the 70-ties) is some crap. I have an 1975 LVB station wagon. It's easy to fix thats the best with it. I do not agree with Mercedes, I would rather have an old Volvo. P1800 is som of th nicest cars I know.

I do not have any operation A-27 in my manual. They has numbers. Camshaft Remove and refit is 12.13.01. Timing gear is 12.65.22 and 12.65.28. Where can I find operation A-27?

Knut Eggum said:

Is it you Stretch on th picture? You look like my neighbor who makes round balls for me. It's your car in th background I presume.

I fully agree that Land Rover (generally English cars from the 70-ties) is some crap. I have an 1975 LVB station wagon. It's easy to fix thats the best with it. I do not agree with Mercedes, I would rather have an old Volvo. P1800 is som of th nicest cars I know.

I do not have any operation A-27 in my manual. They has numbers. Camshaft Remove and refit is 12.13.01. Timing gear is 12.65.22 and 12.65.28. Where can I find operation A-27?

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Moi? Nope - not me

Never heard of scrap heap challenge?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapheap_Challenge

(Good fun if you can find it)

I don't think of Land Rovers as crap - but they are certainly made differently. I do think Mercedes for example are much better made (I'm not familiar with Volvo so can't comment)

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The chapter I quoted is out of my series 2/2a manual. For the series three manual 12.65.22 seems to be the equivalent chapter (I found it on line - I haven't checked through word for word)

Knut Eggum said:

I have adjusted to 22 degrees and it helped. The car goes a lot better. "The green bible" Repair Oreration manual says that you set the MS67B to 22 degrees. I do not hav the tool but tried the angle. It's bad that the manual does not tell the angle, but just how to use the two timing tols.

To the figure shown above that shows 20 degrees. The manual says turning the engine to 13 degrees BTDC, until the master spline stands approximately 20 degrees from the center line. It says approximatley and 4 o'clock. This is because you have to turn the engine twice for the diesel pump to rotate once. Master spline can therefore be approximately 20 degrees, or opposite to 200 degrees when the pointer is at 13 degree BTDC.. Approximately 20 degrees are correct, approximately 200 degrees are at the wrong side. After turning the engine to approximately 20 degrees , set the timing tool and adjust to the correct angle, and this is the right angle I'm looking for. The angle between the master spline and the pointer on the engine block.

I think the manufacturers of engines know best how to adjust. Land Rover says that you should use the timing tool. Therefore you should use one. If you do not have a timing tool, you can of course try it out in a different way, but it will hardly be correct.

I'll ask at other forums, chances there are somebody out there who know or can measure the angle to use.

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with all the tolerances and given cam timing is seldom exactly set , 20 degrees is a nominal number lr give,some engines will run better either side of that ,to get optimum you adjust pump till engine was just before knock ,ie when running if you advanced any more a knock would become evident

I'll see if I can open up the front and check if the camshaft setting is still correct. It must be next spring. I do not want to do a bigger job now when the evenings get shorter, colder and darker.

Today the cutting bar head on my motor mower broke and I had to mend it, and short after then the air filter dropped off. Tomorrow I have to weld it on again. Swiss crap I say, the Gutbrod mower is only 45 years old.

Thank you all for all your comments, I especially liked Bobsicle: a chimp on acid can see its out. You got me in a good mood.

Are these timing tools hard to find & expensive ??

Yes and no. I have seen them on ebay, about £ 100,-. They usaly do not send to Norway.

To check the camshaft position you don't necessarily need to have the front cover off (you do to adjust - but to check / measure not) - it helps to make marks on the camshaft cog but if you're careful you could just remember numbers on a clock gauge fitted to the exhaust valve rocker arm (or with a long enough probe you can even remove the push rod and rocker arms and measure directly on top of the follower - long probe though!)

This is certainly a job to be done in a nice warm, wind free, well-lit environment where you can take your time