Oh dear.

1 - A few days back, you posted asking for dimensions for building a lift kit. Those who sell them commercially were reluctant to divulge their information. You implied that it was for personal use and would not be selling kits. Now you are designing and about to sell other items relating to lift kits....this doesnt give a good impression, no?

2 - Steering is kinda important. Yet so far in this thread, there is a worrying number of phrases like "I never thought of that" and plenty of "if, maybe, should" etc. So far you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of very basic steering and suspension geometry. This doesnt inspire confidence.


So for those reasons....Aaahm oot.

dragons-den-duncan-bannatyne-solopress-printing-design-blog.jpg
 
dave21478 said:
Oh dear.

1 - A few days back, you posted asking for dimensions for building a lift kit. Those who sell them commercially were reluctant to divulge their information. You implied that it was for personal use and would not be selling kits. Now you are designing and about to sell other items relating to lift kits....this doesnt give a good impression, no?

2 - Steering is kinda important. Yet so far in this thread, there is a worrying number of phrases like "I never thought of that" and plenty of "if, maybe, should" etc. So far you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of very basic steering and suspension geometry. This doesnt inspire confidence.


So for those reasons....Aaahm oot.

dragons-den-duncan-bannatyne-solopress-printing-design-blog.jpg
Click to expand...

Just given OP an infraction for trying to sell
1) less than 50 posts
2) told to contact accy or roy
3) this has been reported
 
Thanks guys

The lift kit is for personal use and I have the dimensions I need for that so not everyone here is against me
I have also passed those on to other members for personal use

Basic steering geometry umm well yeah I do know how different factors can affect the way certain parts behave but didn't take into account the lower arm causing a slight change in the struts position I have also been talking to people behind the scenes about this part.

As for spam well to be honest that's a joke it's not spam at all and the part I'm trying to design and make could help a lot of people but your all welcome to report me again for spam if you like and carry on talking. Rubbish

so far this site has be pretty much an unfriendly place to visit and it seems like most freelander owners are totally against moving away from ****ty bodge modifications to chassis and arches and that a new look at an old problem is a taboo subject

I have to forced anyone into anything cause any arguments placed advertising posts for products or asked people to test anything etc etc

It's a sad day when offroaders can't stick together
 
Epicuser said:
Being picky, Freelanders don't have a chassis.

I don't think the inner wing is structural.
Click to expand...

Freelanders do have a chassis it's just welded ti the floor of the car rather than the body sitting on outriggers every car ever built has a chassis just some are built into the body and some are not

The inner wing may not be structural but at the bottom of the inner wing is the formed channel that you have to cut into and re weld when removing the lip that is the chassis modification
 
RO51 said:
..... but didn't take into account the lower arm causing a slight change in the struts position
Click to expand...

Thats the whole point. And you didnt think of it.

Suspension and steering geometry is very simple indeed - if you know anything about it. Its also requires incredible precision and an ability to see how altering one aspect will change several other aspects. Not taking into account the movement of the strut as the bottom arm angle changes will leave you with a couple of millimeters out of spec. Its not much....in fact its very, very little. However, its enough to potentially make the difference between driving normally and tediously tramlining all over the road. Its enough to potentially make the difference between tyres wearing normally and burning out a set of new tyres in 2k miles.
But you knew that - didnt you?

Didnt you?

OK, that can be corrected with a simple wheel alignment, but have you thought about how altering the relationship between strut, bottom arm and tie-rod will work throughout the full range of suspension movement? Will suspension movement mid-corner due to the different angle of the steering arm have an adverse effect on toe as the vehicle leans? will that affect the steering weight or ability to self centre? Perhaps the effects will be minimal...but then perhaps they wont be.

And here we get to the problem with the internet in general - any Joe with access to a workshop can set up "Hi-steer kits Inc" and have a nice website or sell though forums, and people will assume that its a good product that has been thought out carefully. They will spend their money, and receive what I assume will be a shiny billet of cnc machined metal that has a taper bolt on the bottom that fits to the strut and a hole on top that takes the standard track rod end. They will bolt it to their cars and they will be very proud of themselves, trusting that the parts were designed to do their job properly and not just dreamt up by some guy who has heard of things like "bump steer" but doesnt really understand what they mean.
 
As for this forum, well it has a high proportion of pedantic dicks and tedious knobbers. However, I like to stick around for cheap laughs, and to occasionally point out that if someone wants to re-invent the wheel, it would probably be a good idea to not make it square.
 
Thats is why it states at the out set of my post that it's prototype and will be tested first do you seriously think I would put people's live in danger for the sake of a couple of quid. I'm doing this in my own time off my own back and thought that posting here would help iron out needs for the car and for people to point out things I may have misses

But alas it's just another forum full of people that have nothing better to do than fight wars via a keyboard and take the ****

What's the point,

Thanks for the constructive messages from those people who got in touch you know who you are every one else

Short pier.... Long run... Get it
 
RO51 said:
Freelanders do have a chassis it's just welded ti the floor of the car rather than the body sitting on outriggers every car ever built has a chassis just some are built into the body and some are not

The inner wing may not be structural but at the bottom of the inner wing is the formed channel that you have to cut into and re weld when removing the lip that is the chassis modification
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I don't like the idea of cutting the inner with. It may not be a "structural" part of the body but removing it won't increase the body strength ether.

Your idea is good and is along the rite lines. Sounds like strength won't be an issue. If the bump steer issue is sorted or deemed acceptable, I can't see why you shouldn't fit such an item.
 
Hang on a sec, let me call the waaaahhmbulance for you.



OK, I will level with you - All the stuff I talked about...Its accurate but probably not relevant. Your gadget will probably be fine. Lets face it, Landrover build tolerances are not fantastic and the kind of people fitting this tat are probably the kind of people at 150k miles or more still on all original suspension bushes and who only replace the track rod ends when the MOT tester suggests that 5mm of slop at each end wont get them another years ticket.


However, if you are going to offer something for sale for road use, you at the very least need to consider these things, and getting all huffy when people point out the errors in your thinking isnt going to win you any friends/customers here.
 
Been having a think about this since we spoke the other day, if all it's going to be is a cylindrical spacer with a hole through the middle... They're widely available in thousands of sizes on the interweb, probably be cheaper for testing purposes to buy a pair and try them first.

Really need to measure the suspension geometry and various points of travel when standard and modified to compare, as there are some very valid concerns and points raised by people here...which is why I advised to put a post up about it, cos there's always someone who knows more.
 
would it be something like this?



this seems like a very good idea to me, and if manufacturing plans are shared even better
 
No its not just a fat tube it's more in depth than that as the length of the standard taper joint would not allow that

There is nothing out there that fits like this will only conversions to rose joints an expensive option

But if I'm honest I don't think I will share it here I'm just going to get my own done a leave it at that if it works it works if not nothing lost
 
baptista said:
would it be something like this?



this seems like a very good idea to me, and if manufacturing plans are shared even better
Click to expand...

I did think of this to make use of the second hole in my struts but was un sure if all freelanders would have that second hole.for mounting and wanted to avoid the need for drilling if not
 
RO51 said:
Thats is why it states at the out set of my post that it's prototype and will be tested first do you seriously think I would put people's live in danger for the sake of a couple of quid. I'm doing this in my own time off my own back and thought that posting here would help iron out needs for the car and for people to point out things I may have misses

But alas it's just another forum full of people that have nothing better to do than fight wars via a keyboard and take the ****

What's the point,

Thanks for the constructive messages from those people who got in touch you know who you are every one else

Short pier.... Long run... Get it
Click to expand...

Soz dad. :rolleyes:
 
It can't hit the top of the "hole" it passes through due to the fact that movement of the track end will be virtually restored to its original position.
 
RO51 said:
No its not just a fat tube it's more in depth than that as the length of the standard taper joint would not allow that

There is nothing out there that fits like this will only conversions to rose joints an expensive option

But if I'm honest I don't think I will share it here I'm just going to get my own done a leave it at that if it works it works if not nothing lost
Click to expand...

Hang about!

One minute this is a prototype that you're going to try out and it may help a few others....

Then you're not going to share what you find....

Now you want to avoid drilling in case other freelanders aren't the same as yours and presumably reduce your market.

You're cutting a very, very fine line of spamming as it is but if after picking everyone's brains you aren't going to share it anyway.....either drawings or end product at cost you can take your steering kit and shove it :mad::mad:
 
blue beasty said:
Hang about!

One minute this is a prototype that you're going to try out and it may help a few others....

Then you're not going to share what you find....

Now you want to avoid drilling in case other freelanders aren't the same as yours and presumably reduce your market.

You're cutting a very, very fine line of spamming as it is but if after picking everyone's brains you aren't going to share it anyway.....either drawings or end product at cost you can take your steering kit and shove it :mad::mad:
Click to expand...

No the solution needs to be generic no point in sharing something that won't fit all models or still requires unnecessary modification that could weaken. A critical steering part think about what your saying

and why bother sharing the details after the abuse on here I have been reported for spamming bexcuse of a simple question and trying to solve a problem
 
All of the freelander she'll can be classed as structurally due to the lack of seperate chassis. I too would rather not cut any out of it unless it was totally neccercary.

Thinking about the bump steer issue I suspect that the length of the track rod compared to the length of the lower arm and looking at a 50mm ride height difference ( some fag packet type calculations and sketches) should make negligible difference. Cars that are lowered by 100mm plus suffer from bad bump steer but they also usually have much shorter track rods that emerge from the ends of the steering rack, not near the centre.
It is all to do with the changing effective length of the arms in relation to each other and the static angles. Obviously the longer arm will move through less angle over a suspension movement of 6 inches than a shorter one.
 
RO51 said:
No the solution needs to be generic no point in sharing something that won't fit all models or still requires unnecessary modification that could weaken. A critical steering part think about what your saying

and why bother sharing the details after the abuse on here I have been reported for spamming bexcuse of a simple question and trying to solve a problem
Click to expand...

Think about what you're saying :doh:

You have been reported for spamming to who exactly do you think?

If you want input and knowledge from others here to try something out....fair enough.

If you're happy to share what you find....fair enough

Even if at some later point it turns into some sort of commercial product and you're prepared to have a conversation and do a deal with LZ admin that benefits members......no problem.

If you want to spit your dummy because someone said nasty, mean things to you so you're going to pout, cross your arms and refuse to speak and STILL hope to get some useful input I'll pull the thread
 
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