I know what it is supposed to do and am aware of how to engage it, kind of just don't want to let some electric monkey take charge! Thanks for the explanation and clarification. I know dropping the clutch and not braking seems counter intuitive, but if you are already going slowly enough for safety then steering in a skid situation is the most important and sometimes you just have to do it to gain control, of course as soon as you have that then you start braking again, cadence braking obviously, unless you really trust ABS, which I don't either. Works because each time you lift your foot in cadence braking you regain steering control, you only lose that when the brakes lock. I know ABS is supposed to do this but I am not confident, especially when the surface is not that slippery. The guy who ran into us two years ago was trusting ABS. He swore blind it hadn't worked, he only just hit us and I know that if he had taken his foot off the brake at the last second he'd have missed us. It was a bone dry road on ahot summers day. He was steering to miss us but sliding towards us. We practised this lots at the skid pan and it's great fun.
 
There isn't a human on earth that has reactions faster than an ABS system.It performs cadence braking far more efficiently It was used in formula one till it was banned. I can't believe any cars are manufactured today without it.
 
brianconwy said:
There isn't a human on earth that has reactions faster than an ABS system.It performs cadence braking far more efficiently It was used in formula one till it was banned. I can't believe any cars are manufactured today without it.
Click to expand...

I agree. ABS will not overcome the laws of physics, but it cadence brakes far better than any human. Even my motorcycle has it!
 
The VCU in my P38 with 4 wheel traction control is pretty unstoppable.

The LT230 is a good mechanical box and mine being an early 2000 model, 1999 manufacture o_O should have the CDL fitted but not connected.

I think.

Haven't checked tbf as in the 4x4 training program by Andrew St pierre white he noted the d2 was much superior than any D1 even without CDL.
 
Wrong really? I think his assessment of the a manual D2 without CDL is accurate - and so, in retrospect, did Land Rover. That is why they reintroduced CDL as an option and standard fit on the G4 model. He is not saying that the D2 is a bad vehicle, quite the opposite, he loves driving them and elsewhere he rates the D2 as one of the best off road and overland vehicles you can buy - but they need to be able to lock the centre diff.
Andrew SPW writes honest reviews and fans of the vehicles he reviews sometimes take great issue with his assessment. You should see some of the feedback on his open and transparent review of a late model Mitisubishi Pajero/Shogun which he took on a group overland expedition and which rapidly became a liability due to the SUV-led design changes. Earlier models he rated highly, but the one he tested was more SUV than 4X4 and ill-suited to overland travel. The Pajero "fanboys" did not like hearing bad things about their vehicle. Are you a D2 fanboy?
 
Si Click said:
Therefore if one wheel spins, the TC will enable the opposite wheel to continue to turn, but lack of a CDL removes power to the other axle until full traction is regained.
Click to expand...

When one wheel spins the TC doesn't enable the opposite wheel to continue turn. What it does it applies braking on that spinning wheel and torque is transferred to the other three wheels. If two wheels are spinning (same axle or not) torque is transferred to the other two wheels. If three wheels are spinning torque is transferred to the last wheel with traction. If all four wheels are spinning TC brakes all wheels in succession in an effort to get you out but it doesn't brake all four at the same time because that doesn't really help (and a manual will stall).

See: (note: from the same guy in the previous vid with some wrong approach on driving a D2 at the 6min mark)

Si Click said:
In essence a manual D2 without CDL is not far off a 2WD vehicle.
Click to expand...

A D2 with TC can be a 4WD, 3WD 2WD or a 1WD depending on the situation you are in. The same doesn't apply with a CDL.

Si Click said:
The auto provides some locking, but is still not great.
Click to expand...

An auto is not different to a manual. Both have the same transfer box with out viscous coupling or other similar mechanism. So this statement is 100% wrong.

I'm not saying that the TC is perfect (or better than a CDL), is just that at times you hear some wrong facts that show lack of understanding on how the system works. Also lack of understanding on what type of drivetrain a D2 has (transfer box etc).
 
Si Click said:
That is why they reintroduced CDL as an option and standard fit on the G4 model. He is not saying that the D2 is a bad vehicle, quite the opposite, he loves driving them and elsewhere he rates the D2 as one of the best off road and overland vehicles you can buy - but they need to be able to lock the centre diff.
Click to expand...

We agree, CDL is a nice thing to have! And not having it on the D2 (in addition to the TC) was a wrong move.

Si Click said:
Are you a D2 fanboy?
Click to expand...

No, not really. I do have a love & hate relationship with the damn thing :)
 
I am still mystified as to how a D2 auto with no cdl still has "some form of central lock up" while a D2 manual doesn't. The CDL works through the TC doesn't it? So what on earth was Andrew St Pierre White on about? Although it would appear from what he said that even LR thought the autos got round their course better than the manual D2s.
Can anyone clarify?
 
Stanleysteamer said:
I am still mystified as to how a D2 auto with no cdl still has "some form of central lock up" while a D2 manual doesn't. The CDL works through the TC doesn't it? So what on earth was Andrew St Pierre White on about? Although it would appear from what he said that even LR thought the autos got round their course better than the manual D2s.
Can anyone clarify?
Click to expand...

It might have a viscous coupling set up on the auto models.
You can probably look it up if interested.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
I am still mystified as to how a D2 auto with no cdl still has "some form of central lock up" while a D2 manual doesn't. The CDL works through the TC doesn't it? So what on earth was Andrew St Pierre White on about? Although it would appear from what he said that even LR thought the autos got round their course better than the manual D2s.
Can anyone clarify?
Click to expand...

It may be as simple as the drive from an auto is smoother than a manual, so less likely to provoke slip.

As to centre diff, mine is a standard ordinary transfer box with a cable for high low and a cable for diff lock.

CDL and Diff Lock is rather grippy!
 
brianconwy said:
There isn't a human on earth that has reactions faster than an ABS system.It performs cadence braking far more efficiently It was used in formula one till it was banned. I can't believe any cars are manufactured today without it.
Click to expand...

Si Click said:
I agree. ABS will not overcome the laws of physics, but it cadence brakes far better than any human. Even my motorcycle has it!
Click to expand...
If ABS was that marvellous then the guy who was going too fast entering a hairpin bend then hit us, on the other side of the road. If he had lifted his foot off the brake he would have regained steering/directional control and he would not have hit us. ABS DID NOT DO THAT FOR HIM! By the time he hit us he had slowed down enough to be fine if he lifted his foot. This is the problem with ABS it actually lengthens your braking distance on a dry road and gives drivers overconfidence in its abilities to steer through a skid.
So, although I appreciate what you are saying guys, i have been on the sticky end of ABS and it was not fun at all!
 
@Stanleysteamer

I would tend to disagree with you on a couple of your comments there.

The reason he hit you was he was a twunt simple, going to fast.

All these mod cons are great but it don’t change the idiot behind the wheel, thinking they will save him/her.

J
 
marjon said:
@Stanleysteamer

I would tend to disagree with you on a couple of your comments there.

The reason he hit you was he was a twunt simple, going to fast.

All these mod cons are great but it don’t change the idiot behind the wheel, thinking they will save him/her.

J
Click to expand...
I agree it is obvious that the idiot was going too fast, but he still blamed the ABS and he blamed it to his insurance company, he put it on his "constat amiable" the insurance form both drivers have to fill in after an accident in France. He really did believe that ABS could sort him out when it obviously couldn't.
Drivers need to be educated to the limits of all this stuff.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
If ABS was that marvellous then the guy who was going too fast entering a hairpin bend then hit us, on the other side of the road. If he had lifted his foot off the brake he would have regained steering/directional control and he would not have hit us. ABS DID NOT DO THAT FOR HIM! By the time he hit us he had slowed down enough to be fine if he lifted his foot. This is the problem with ABS it actually lengthens your braking distance on a dry road and gives drivers overconfidence in its abilities to steer through a skid.
So, although I appreciate what you are saying guys, i have been on the sticky end of ABS and it was not fun at all!
Click to expand...

Always difficult to comment on an event you were not present at, but there was almost no grip at all, the ABS should have allowed him to steer whilst braking as the wheels are not locked. He may have been going too fast for the available grip regardless of ABS or not, or maybe he did not brake hard enough to engage ABS and was just sliding out of control with the wheels locked and no directional input available. If his wheels were locked then absolutely taking his foot off the brake would have helped him steer. Bear in mind though that most people have not had the benefit of skid pan training and are rarely faced with that situation. It can be a big ask to expect them to take their foot off the brake when faced with an imminent impact, and if they have working ABS it would be the wrong thing to do anyway.
Your point about overconfidence due to ABS is a good one. It will not overcome the laws of physics. The same applies to many SUV/4X4 drivers I see when we get deep snow. They drive way too fast, convinced that they can ignore ice and snow as they have 4WD. They forget that 4W Drive just enables you to drive forward or back when others are stuck and gives stability in corners. Everyone has 4W Braking and even with winter or AT tyres the extra weight of their truck actually means that they are less able to stop than everyone else. So why do they feel confident barrelling along as if it were a sunny day?
 
Stanleysteamer said:
According to this article
https://www.offroaddiscovery.com/2017/10/02/land-rover-discovery-2-automatic-and-manual-guidelines
there is no difference in the two TCs and no viscous coupling at all, which is what I thought in the first place. He also talks about the limits of HDC enough to scare me!
Click to expand...

That is a very good explanation of the system.
Not sure we’re the viscous coupling came in (p38 BW transfer boxes only as far as I know ,or the newer D3/4) all Discos 1/2 were fitted with LT230 of whatever variety.

Not sure why his description of HDC scare you though. We have used it on our L322 and it works fine on loose gravel downhill tracks.

J
 
Stanleysteamer said:
If ABS was that marvellous then the guy who was going too fast entering a hairpin bend then hit us, on the other side of the road. If he had lifted his foot off the brake he would have regained steering/directional control and he would not have hit us. ABS DID NOT DO THAT FOR HIM! By the time he hit us he had slowed down enough to be fine if he lifted his foot. This is the problem with ABS it actually lengthens your braking distance on a dry road and gives drivers overconfidence in its abilities to steer through a skid.
So, although I appreciate what you are saying guys, i have been on the sticky end of ABS and it was not fun at all!
Click to expand...

ABS only improves stopping distance for drivers of moderate or poor ability.
The top 10% in terms of pulse braking and steering ability will beat the system.

No technologies can cope with greatly excessive speed, or circumstances which greatly impair traction, like adverse cambers, or oil on the road.
 
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