Careful! You're asking Saint to hit them hard: the bl**dy engine mounts will let go and the whole lot will leave a big pothole in his drive.
Tap with purpose, perhaps?
Careful! You're asking Saint to hit them hard: the bl**dy engine mounts will let go and the whole lot will leave a big pothole in his drive.
Tap with purpose, perhaps?
Gazbo
Well-Known Member
I'd think to reduce the risk of some more serious damage by impact, drilling the head off method as suggested by @Ratae would be the way to go, assuming clear access to the centre of the bolt head. There is a small possibility that the binding of the bolt is due to thread area corrosion but more usually the underside of the bolt heads binding is the cause. Once the under head pressure is released the remaing bolt shank will turn out easily.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
perhaps but i have stripped a lot of v8s so am talking from actual experience
Gazbo
Well-Known Member
I know you would have been over this ground a number of times JM, I have only done heads off on my old classic and my mates old V8 County and never had problems removing head bolts. Knowing that the V8 block deck is a bit fragile in the head bolt area, if I'd had trouble removing them I would not have been prepared to belt them for fear of damaging threads or the block and would instead chose to take the "easier on the thread method", bolt head removal.
A process I used many times to get stuck bolts out during my time as a fitter.
As @Saint.V8 has said that he's broken a couple of sockets already, there is no doubt they're stuck good and proper, and with the heads rounded there is not a lot of options to turn them.
Unfortunately not for the next couple of weekends....
I have a shooting competition this weekend and then from the 4th to the 11th we are on holibobs - I may give it a go on Thursday or Friday lunchtime next week, but time is a luxury at the moment which sucks as I just want to get the head off so I know where I stand with the engine - has a liner slipped?, is the ticking elsewhere?, is the block scrap?, is it worth rebuilding with fresh cam, followers, rockers, rods, valve seals, etc etc?.....it is the not knowing that is annoying me - once I know what is what I can move forward, at the moment I am in limbo.
First order of business is to get some Irwin sockets, and a then with @jamesmartin 's method of beating it then seeing if it turns, then beat it some more and see what transpires...then failing any movement from there is to drill the heads off!
I have heard of the beating method before to loosen head bolts, it shcoks the threads and they jump and loosen slightly and then you can spin them out. it is the same principle as an impact gun.
Think I've got some Irwin sockets in my shed you can borrow if need be.
Well, managed to take a bit of time this lunchtime to crack off the final 3 bolts to remove the second head.
I tell you what - those Irwin Bolt Grip sockets are fecking awesome - I was a bit tentative at first as they are only a 3/8" drive, and I would prefer a 1/2" as these feckers have snapped 4 sockets already - but I needn't have worried - holy cow crap they are good!
Gave the bolt a sharp tap with a hammer and 12" length of 7/8" steel bar (as a drift), popped the Irwin socket on the bolt, gave that a little tippy-tap to get the flutes to start, put a 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor on, then a short extension and used a standard ratchet with a but of ummph to get the flutes to begin digging in....swapped the ratchet for the 1000mm power bar, and with some gentle easement, the bolts cracked loose....
Had to hammer one of the bolts out of the Irwin as it totally refused to let go, but carried on with the other 2 and boom, out they came - fecking awesome. I would totally recommend this product to anyone with stubborn rounded off bolts - if they can undo the head bolts on this engine, and they were fecking tight even for me, they they will undo 99.9% of other bolts! £23 well spent!
Any how, took the head off and it is just as good looking at the first, no burn marks, no leak marks, gasket is looking mighty fine, head and valves are a beautiful colour....block deck is in superb condition, and none of the liners are showing signs of having moved at all!
Which is a bit of a bugger really, cos it means I don't know what the ticking/knocking noise was/is! Oh well, at least I know that the top half is OK....Might pop the sump off and look at the big end shells, but I doubt it is that as the noise only manifests itself after getting warm, whereas I would have thought big end shells would be when it is cold due to lack of oil initially!
Thoughts?
I tell you what - those Irwin Bolt Grip sockets are fecking awesome - I was a bit tentative at first as they are only a 3/8" drive, and I would prefer a 1/2" as these feckers have snapped 4 sockets already - but I needn't have worried - holy cow crap they are good!
Gave the bolt a sharp tap with a hammer and 12" length of 7/8" steel bar (as a drift), popped the Irwin socket on the bolt, gave that a little tippy-tap to get the flutes to start, put a 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor on, then a short extension and used a standard ratchet with a but of ummph to get the flutes to begin digging in....swapped the ratchet for the 1000mm power bar, and with some gentle easement, the bolts cracked loose....
Had to hammer one of the bolts out of the Irwin as it totally refused to let go, but carried on with the other 2 and boom, out they came - fecking awesome. I would totally recommend this product to anyone with stubborn rounded off bolts - if they can undo the head bolts on this engine, and they were fecking tight even for me, they they will undo 99.9% of other bolts! £23 well spent!
Any how, took the head off and it is just as good looking at the first, no burn marks, no leak marks, gasket is looking mighty fine, head and valves are a beautiful colour....block deck is in superb condition, and none of the liners are showing signs of having moved at all!
Which is a bit of a bugger really, cos it means I don't know what the ticking/knocking noise was/is! Oh well, at least I know that the top half is OK....Might pop the sump off and look at the big end shells, but I doubt it is that as the noise only manifests itself after getting warm, whereas I would have thought big end shells would be when it is cold due to lack of oil initially!
Thoughts?
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
That is a brilliant result Saint..
Valvetrain seems to be in good overall condition..
No slipped Liners..
So overall she seems to be in good overall condition.
Whats your next port of call?
I doubt it's big ends as they would be a constant noise??
Also Oil pressure is brilliant so i doubt its them..
H
Valvetrain seems to be in good overall condition..
No slipped Liners..
So overall she seems to be in good overall condition.
Whats your next port of call?
I doubt it's big ends as they would be a constant noise??
Also Oil pressure is brilliant so i doubt its them..
H
Only thing about oil pressure is where you measure it. Might be great just after the pump but how about up all the little oilways and galleries?
Henry_b
Think outside, no box required.
Big ends are fine when cold they only knock when the oil thins out when its hot. But it's usually a definite knock. It's common on v8s though as I reckon the oil pumps wear as these beasties dirty up oil quickly. a properly clogged oilway would need jetting out I reckon. Engine flush wouldn't cut it as there's no real flow past it. Bit of a mystery then. You could check the piston skirts with the sump off too. It's a pain but engine out wouldn't be to bad at this stage! Certainly I would take the engine out at the stage your at if it needed any bottom end work. Many will disagree and say you can put big ends in in situ. But I weighed up the effort to get to this stage vs the potential of not curing the issue after building back up.
A short while ago (on another P38) I did big end and main bearing shells with the engine in situ...!! Was fun!
As you say the ticking is not at crank speed, it is cam speed - which still points to a lazy lifter - but they all checked out....
I will most prob rebuild the top of the engine, I have new rockers, rocker shaft, rods, followers, pedestals, etc etc....
I'll look at getting a way to blow through the oil ways to ensure they are all clear, flush the engine, etc etc....and put it back together....if it still ticks - it can bloody well stay that way!
When Vernon (the guy that bought my last P38 from me) had the OIL Pump pop a tooth and the pressure dropped considerably, the top end sounded like a bucket of bolts. After fixing the oil-pump and the pressure came back up it was all quiet again. Have you got a lifter (or whatever it is called) that is failing to pressurise properly even though it looks good on the face of it?As you say the ticking is not at crank speed, it is cam speed - which still points to a lazy lifter - but they all checked out....
I will most prob rebuild the top of the engine, I have new rockers, rocker shaft, rods, followers, pedestals, etc etc....
I'll look at getting a way to blow through the oil ways to ensure they are all clear, flush the engine, etc etc....and put it back together....if it still ticks - it can bloody well stay that way!
funrover
Active Member
I had an issue similar to this with my old '87 3.5 classic..
Basically i like an engine to sound spot on and when they tick groan or misbehave it pishes me off..
So to fix it...
I drained all the oil out, refilled it with cheap dino oil and substituded 2 litres of engine oil for 2 litres of Dex III ATF..
I then took it for a drive and thrashed tits out of it..
When i came back i drained the NEW oil which was now Black as fook ot had chunks of **** in it!!
I left her for 24hrs to drain and after being refilled with fresh Oil she was silent..
Basically i like an engine to sound spot on and when they tick groan or misbehave it pishes me off..
So to fix it...
I drained all the oil out, refilled it with cheap dino oil and substituded 2 litres of engine oil for 2 litres of Dex III ATF..
I then took it for a drive and thrashed tits out of it..
When i came back i drained the NEW oil which was now Black as fook ot had chunks of **** in it!!
I left her for 24hrs to drain and after being refilled with fresh Oil she was silent..
ovalandrover
Well-Known Member
i have had a small end sound like a tappet
