I use Texaco where poss (I collects the points) and esso if there's no texaco nearby.

I get 50km less to a tank in my truck if I use the orange supermarket fuel over normal fuel from esso or texaco.

I get a further 50km to a tank if I use texaco supreme over their normal diesel. If I have texaco supreme in my tank my truck travels faster up hills with a saloon or estate car on the back than when it's unladen whilst running on supermarket fuel.

I can also tell you that I've come across petrol that will not ignite that was bought from an orange supermarket.

I don't put supermarket fuels in my own vehicles.
 
Hippo said:
Do we have any fool tanker drivers on ere who could put us stright on this topic? Or does anyone know anyone in the fool trade who could advise us?
Click to expand...

Depends what you would like to know Hippo. I worked for Shell for 26 years so know a fair amount about additives, third party pickups from Terminals/Refineries and exchange agreements. I personally use Supermarket fuel as the nearest Shell station is a 40 mile round trip so any improvement in mpg would just be wasted. All fuel retailers are BSI/ISO registered so their products must comply to a minimum standard, supermarket fuel does not usually contain additives, oil companies do not supply additives, or fuel containing their additives to other oil companies or third parties. Let me know if you would like me to be more specific but it can easily become quite a boring subject to other members.
 
I've started using Shell Fuelsave diesel in my Freelander cos I pass a Shell garage on the way to work, it's pretty competitive price wise and as a result I'm getting about 50 miles extra per tank full.

I'm staying clear of Morrisons as my Mondeo had a an unexplained trip into limp mode which the RAC and Ford couldn't diagnose so I'm putting it down to using cheap Morrisons diesel.
 
nickcc said:
Depends what you would like to know Hippo. I worked for Shell for 26 years so know a fair amount about additives, third party pickups from Terminals/Refineries and exchange agreements. I personally use Supermarket fuel as the nearest Shell station is a 40 mile round trip so any improvement in mpg would just be wasted. All fuel retailers are BSI/ISO registered so their products must comply to a minimum standard, supermarket fuel does not usually contain additives, oil companies do not supply additives, or fuel containing their additives to other oil companies or third parties. Let me know if you would like me to be more specific but it can easily become quite a boring subject to other members.
Click to expand...

Hi nickcc,

Not boring at all - so far anyway.

Was I right in my earlier post that different branded tankers operate out of the same Refinery - I'm thinking here of the one which supplies almost all of Scotland - Grangemouth.

As it was explained to me they all draw from a pretty similar base product, but with varying amounts and type of additives to produce the individual fuel particular to the 'big-name' brand.

This to me means that Shell can be different to Esso or BP, for example and that supermarket fuel may be missing some or all of the additives that 'improve' the basic fuel with respect to octane or cetane rating, waxing, low sulphur, etc.

All supermarket fuel gives me noticeable less mpg and makes my TD4 smokey. There are only small mpg differences between the big-name brands.

Performance is more difficult to judge, but there are hills I can climb in top gear without slowing when using Shell that need a gear change with Esso.

This subject could run for ever as we all have our own opinions about brands - just like most folks have a preferred choice of beer or coffee - or anything.

I'd rather deal with facts - the more the merrier, please.

Singvogel. :)
 
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I'm with sing on this on nickcc it's not boring ,quite informative actually, any more info would be nice
 
nickcc said:
Depends what you would like to know Hippo. I worked for Shell for 26 years so know a fair amount about additives, third party pickups from Terminals/Refineries and exchange agreements. I personally use Supermarket fuel as the nearest Shell station is a 40 mile round trip so any improvement in mpg would just be wasted. All fuel retailers are BSI/ISO registered so their products must comply to a minimum standard, supermarket fuel does not usually contain additives, oil companies do not supply additives, or fuel containing their additives to other oil companies or third parties. Let me know if you would like me to be more specific but it can easily become quite a boring subject to other members.
Click to expand...

Let us know everyfink. J

I use Sainsburys fool. Why? Coz it’s cheap. I buy the normal petrol un not the more eggspensive version. Have been told ma hippo’s multipoint sequential injection engine requires the betterer fool but it runs ok on the normal stuff. Have tried nearly a full tank of Sainsburys betterer fool, then BP normal and it didn’t make a difference.

I agree about the minimum spec thing. I always look out for EN570 and EN528 depending on putting petrol or diesel in (ma hippo’s petrol but work hire vehicles are petrol or diesel). I always thought that was the proper spec through some sort of regulation. The more eggpensive fools seen to have a higher octane level. A betterer burn factor is you like, or a higher level of energy given out when burnt, compared to 95 normal level fool.

Bloke who repairs trucks told me he talks to tanker drivers. He said the difference between diesel and red diesel is the tanker driver tips red power/dye in the tanker after filling with diesel, to dye it so it can be detected. Is this true? Is this the way additives are added to fool like BP ultimate?

I worked opposite a large refinery once. Only for 5 hours but it was a bit of an eye opener. I was part of a convoy of drivers on the way there, the rest were all tankers. On the way home it was a simular convoy. Many white only but others will allsorts of well known brand names on the side. They all filled up at the same place. So if they is putting additives in, then they must be paying for fool suppliers to put those additive in for them, at the terminal.
 
Hello Singvogel, Hippo and cuza68

To answer a couple of your questions, most if not all Distribution Terminals/Refineries are automated and drivers have no way of adding additives (the swipe card the driver is issued with controls what additives are automatically injected) Grangemouth along with all other major oil companies terminals/refineries have dedicated additive injection systems for each of their exchange partners, for example Stanlow Terminal (where I worked) stored and handled additives for Esso, Mobil/BP and Shell. Many other third parties collected fuel but this was just the Refinery base product with no additives. Red diesel/gas oil is already dyed/marked before it leaves the Refinery as distribution terminals are no longer bonded (revenue and customs) and duty on all products is paid as soon as it leaves the refinery. Hope this answers a few of your questions, I will have another go later on today
 
This is starting to get very interesting and making sense when looking at all the threads. Thanks for the info nickcc and would be interested in whatever else you have. I have Morrisons, Tesco's , Asda, BP, Shell all near so will be looking to change to a major brand rather than a supermarket. I have been using Shell for a while now in the TD4 and the difference is approx 60 miles extra per tank. Will now be trying this in my TD5 and seeing what happens
 
cuza68 said:
This is starting to get very interesting and making sense when looking at all the threads. Thanks for the info nickcc and would be interested in whatever else you have. I have Morrisons, Tesco's , Asda, BP, Shell all near so will be looking to change to a major brand rather than a supermarket. I have been using Shell for a while now in the TD4 and the difference is approx 60 miles extra per tank. Will now be trying this in my TD5 and seeing what happens
Click to expand...

I agree completely with you cuza68 - I too am spoilt for choice within easy reach. We even have Sainsbury's as well.

I have stopped using any of the supermarket stuff since comparing the results of my longer journeys. Even with the 5p off offers they are just not worth it.

I suspected for some time, what Nick is telling us.

Here, around Aberdeen, Tesco is the cheapest to be found - the local fire engines, ambulances, dust-bin lorries, snow-ploughs and gritters all line up to fill up with what seems to be the most base product available. No surprise why all our council vehicles throw out lots of smoke, then. They have their own MOT testing station as well I think. Hmmmm!

Never a queue for the Shell V-Power just along the road though.

There will always be people to whom the price is more important than the quality - and that's fine as long as they know what they are getting.

Problem is some folks can't see any difference and tell us we are wasting our money as "Diesel is diesel - isn't it?"

I can't wait for further info from nick.

Singvogel. :cool:
 
I can't wait for further info from nick.
Singvogel.



Trying to think of anything more you would like to know. I could chunter on about additive/meter systems proving, reconciling additive to product, crossovers and many more things but it may be more interesting if I tried to answer any specific questions, if I don't know the answers I still have plenty of contacts that will.
 
OK Nick,

Thanks for that, don't worry I've not got a massive list of things to ask. There are 3 that come to mind right now.

I should like to have your opinion on the commercial additives for diesel.

I can see that the supermarkets are generally buying the base product, so what if we add something like Millers or Red-X or Wynns to it? Does that make it in any way equal to the 'named' brands? I tried it and I feel that I did get a bit more power (but I can't accurately measure power) but not much more mpg and it still smoked.

2nd question is re the adding of 2-stroke - any views?

Lastly - when do they start to add the anti-waxing for winter, and would all fuel have it - including the base supermarket stuff? Do they add it according to the calendar or perhaps by the long term weather forecast?

Your comments are much appreciated as until hearing from you, my knowledge was based on rumour and heresay.

Thanks, Singvogel. :)
 
Hello Singvogel

In my opinion, and thats what it is, the better option would be to buy the Major oil companies products complete with additives, as you can imagine testing of the various additives by the (now) three majors covers many millions of miles most on static rigs (shell's testing is carried out at Thornton Reseasch Stanlow) plus extensive road testing, other people will have different opinions so who am i to say they are wrong.

As far as adding two stroke, again in my opinion, If it were that easy why would the major oil companies spend millions on developing all these different additives when all they had to do was throw in two stroke. Adding oil to diesel will also change the flash point and alter the combustion characteristics of the fuel which could result in poor starting in cold weather and incorrect atomization at the injectors but if people believe it gives them more power and better fuel consumption who am I to disagree.

Summer to winter change over depends on where you live and only applies to road fuels and not heating oil. When I worked at Shell Jarrow the winter grade road fuel was usually in storage in October which allowed for the authorised distributers to have it in stock before the bad weather commenced, further south this date could be as late as November, you also have to bear in mind that winter diesel costs more to produce than summer diesel so it's in the oil companies interests to delay introducing winter grade for as long as possible without loosing business.
 
What do the additives actually do? Adverts on the tv claim they clean your engine inside. Others claim it lenghtens the life of your engine. Are these claims justified?
 
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