monkfish24 · May 9, 2018

They aren't bad at all. mine seems to be coping with farm duties quite happily. So much so that I haven't even had to fire up the series and get it running. (Not starting at the moment). It's warm, has a radio, is versatile and seems to be taking the abuse I'm giving it.

Even my wife enjoyed her drive around the fields while sat on the roof bar.

The head gasket has finally let go now though. It'll get fixed this week. (This is a problem from before it's working life.)

GrumpyGel · May 9, 2018

Nice to see a Freelander at work

Nodge68 · May 9, 2018

I'm sure the thread title should be "Freelander's Aren't Rubbish Off Roaders!!"

monkfish24 · May 9, 2018

Nodge68 said:
I'm sure the thread title should be "Freelander's Aren't Rubbish Off Roaders!!"

No, I wanted to stir up a bit of interest!

Nodge68 · May 9, 2018

monkfish24 said:
No, I wanted to stir up a bit of interest!

You should have put it in the AG section. That would have stirred up some interesting replies.

Mine won't be so good off road now I've removed the 17" rims shod with AT tyres and fitted 18" rims shod with all weather tyres instead.

300bhp/ton · May 9, 2018

monkfish24 said:
They aren't bad at all. mine seems to be coping with farm duties quite happily. So much so that I haven't even had to fire up the series and get it running. (Not starting at the moment). It's warm, has a radio, is versatile and seems to be taking the abuse I'm giving it.

Even my wife enjoyed her drive around the fields while sat on the roof bar.

The head gasket has finally let go now though. It'll get fixed this week. (This is a problem from before it's working life.)

“Good” is a relative term though. As it depends on the exact terrain and use.

For its design limitation the Freelander is surprisingly capable. But lacks low speed control, has poor ground clearance, poor suspension travel making it less stable on rough terrain and has huge overhangs and vulnerable bumpers.

On the flip side the TCS and lowish weight mean they generally work well on loose and slippery surfaces such as wet grass, snow and sand. But they are less at home with deep mud, steeps ascents and descents and big axle twisters.

Eg

Coil sprung independent suspension limitation results in an unstable vehicle with wheels in the air:

Vs something with live axles:

monkfish24 · May 9, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
“Good” is a relative term though. As it depends on the exact terrain and use.

For its design limitation the Freelander is surprisingly capable. But lacks low speed control, has poor ground clearance, poor suspension travel making it less stable on rough terrain and has huge overhangs and vulnerable bumpers.

Sir,

While I agree with your run down on the differences between live axle and suspension set ups, it's limitations are known and in general the expectations are low. Everyone is pleasantly surprised when they see Audi's Quattro system in use but always expect more of the freelander, despite it being a very similar system (even exactly the same in the FL2). Maybe it's just because of the make. However, the freelander is serving a purpose never truly expected of it and is doing so with ease, far beyond the expectation a post like yours gives. But there, in itself, is the difference between a reasonable off road driver and a good off road driver. (I am neither). Understanding the limitations of the vehicle and still using it effectively.

I am still surprised by it's functionality on the farm, not something that was truly in the freelanders design concept.

GrumpyGel · May 9, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
“Good” is a relative term though. As it depends on the exact terrain and use.

For its design limitation the Freelander is surprisingly capable. But lacks low speed control, has poor ground clearance, poor suspension travel making it less stable on rough terrain and has huge overhangs and vulnerable bumpers.

On the flip side the TCS and lowish weight mean they generally work well on loose and slippery surfaces such as wet grass, snow and sand. But they are less at home with deep mud, steeps ascents and descents and big axle twisters.

Eg

Coil sprung independent suspension limitation results in an unstable vehicle with wheels in the air:

Vs something with live axles:

I'm not so sure you are using a good example there. All 3 vehicles pictured have open front and rear diffs. The Freelander is obviously getting no drive to the back axle due to 1 wheel being in the air, the other 2 will have limited traction due to the suspension being at its limits. The Freelander and RR have an automatically locking traction between front and back axles, the Series will have manual - so with 3 wheels firmly on the ground, all 3 vehicles will be able to drive through the those "obstacles". If one of the front wheels loses traction though, an axle twister, that's different. The Freelander will have TC on all 4 wheels so will be able to drive through it. The RR will have limited TC - so will hopefully drive through it. The Series has no TC so will get stuck.

300bhp/ton · May 9, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
I'm not so sure you are using a good example there. All 3 vehicles pictured have open front and rear diffs. The Freelander is obviously getting no drive to the back axle due to 1 wheel being in the air, the other 2 will have limited traction due to the suspension being at its limits. The Freelander and RR have an automatically locking traction between front and back axles, the Series will have manual - so with 3 wheels firmly on the ground, all 3 vehicles will be able to drive through the those "obstacles". If one of the front wheels loses traction though, an axle twister, that's different. The Freelander will have TC on all 4 wheels so will be able to drive through it. The RR will have limited TC - so will hopefully drive through it. The Series has no TC so will get stuck.

Theory is fine. However as 2 of the 3 vehciles are mine and the other my Mums. I can give conclusive results that the Series is by far the most capable of the 3 despite having open diffs and least likely to get stuck on this terrain. The Range Rover is very good also and the 4 wheel TCS is superb. But ultimately it’s long wheelbase, big bumpers and large overhangs limit it’s ability on this terrain and it will, even in extended off road mode (after its been beached) end up sitting on its belly rather a lot and you end up with a lot of impacts under the car.

The Freelander is cool and is brilliant in the snow. But there is no denying it feels boarder line scary on terrain like this. It feels massively unstable lifting wheels off the ground and sometimes flops over with alarming momentum. Most of the time it probably is miles away from rolling over. But doesn’t feel it from the drivers seat. And ultimately stands more chance than the others at ending up on its roof.

This Freelander is a manual Td4, although we had a 1.8 previously. Have driven autos, L-Series and V6’s too.

HDC is brilliant and for laning works well. But on technical terrain is too fast and unlike the D3 and newer models isn’t programmable. Think it’s 5mph which is 4mph too quick! Lack of low range means you don’t have the wheel torque either. Both of these things mean you have to drive quicker and harder to cross the terrain. Which is hard work and potentially more damaging.

All of the manuals have a weak clutch too. Which means you end up spinning it on technical off road use.

Having driven a few Freelanders over this terrain they all stuff their front bumpers into the ground. And take serious knocks under the Vehcile. They can do it. But it feels brutal and largely unstable.

The terrain isn’t that extreme either. But has plenty of axle twisters and it somewhat technical.

Haven’t got any footage of the Freelanders going round. But here are some other Land Rovers to give an idea.

This is a Range Rover Sport on the same terrain. So it too has independent suspension. But the air suspension has cross linked air bags to simulate a live axle. It also has more wheel travel than a Freelander. Yet despite this it still ends up with wheels in the air quite a bit. Although obviously is capable. However it still took some exterior trim damage going round here.

Skinny Mike · May 9, 2018

Who gives a fook, they're all hilarious to drive off road, the Freelander more so as you know it's doing it with one arm tied behind its back.
Mike

gstuart · May 9, 2018

thought this video was a good one showing different models

gstuart · May 9, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
Theory is fine. However as 2 of the 3 vehciles are mine and the other my Mums. I can give conclusive results that the Series is by far the most capable of the 3 despite having open diffs and least likely to get stuck on this terrain. The Range Rover is very good also and the 4 wheel TCS is superb. But ultimately it’s long wheelbase, big bumpers and large overhangs limit it’s ability on this terrain and it will, even in extended off road mode (after its been beached) end up sitting on its belly rather a lot and you end up with a lot of impacts under the car.

The Freelander is cool and is brilliant in the snow. But there is no denying it feels boarder line scary on terrain like this. It feels massively unstable lifting wheels off the ground and sometimes flops over with alarming momentum. Most of the time it probably is miles away from rolling over. But doesn’t feel it from the drivers seat. And ultimately stands more chance than the others at ending up on its roof.

This Freelander is a manual Td4, although we had a 1.8 previously. Have driven autos, L-Series and V6’s too.

HDC is brilliant and for laning works well. But on technical terrain is too fast and unlike the D3 and newer models isn’t programmable. Think it’s 5mph which is 4mph too quick! Lack of low range means you don’t have the wheel torque either. Both of these things mean you have to drive quicker and harder to cross the terrain. Which is hard work and potentially more damaging.

All of the manuals have a weak clutch too. Which means you end up spinning it on technical off road use.

Having driven a few Freelanders over this terrain they all stuff their front bumpers into the ground. And take serious knocks under the Vehcile. They can do it. But it feels brutal and largely unstable.

The terrain isn’t that extreme either. But has plenty of axle twisters and it somewhat technical.

Haven’t got any footage of the Freelanders going round. But here are some other Land Rovers to give an idea.

This is a Range Rover Sport on the same terrain. So it too has independent suspension. But the air suspension has cross linked air bags to simulate a live axle. It also has more wheel travel than a Freelander. Yet despite this it still ends up with wheels in the air quite a bit. Although obviously is capable. However it still took some exterior trim damage going round here.

hi

didn’t realise that at first on a D3 ref the HDC and how u can alter the speed , along with as u say turning the DTC off to allow the axles to react the same as a live axle

i had the TD4 and must admit done better than i thought it would, only had some bridgestone duelers tyres fitted

GrumpyGel · May 9, 2018

gstuart said:
thought this video was a good one showing different models

@Hippo has a video of the same event - IIRC shows F1 not getting stuck, unlike the Defenders/Tratters

gstuart · May 9, 2018

GrumpyGel said:
@Hippo has a video of the same event - IIRC shows F1 not getting stuck, unlike the Defenders/Tratters

thought that video looked familiar

personally i liked this video of cross axle , not biased of course

Hippo · May 10, 2018

Ere we go again picking ont Freelanders. If it lets yer feel betterer about the failings of yer own rust heaps then that ok with us.

The reason why Freelanders lift a wheel is because we only need 3. Balance and agility is the art of true control of a vehicle. Balancing on 3 wheels reduces tyre wear anorl.

gstuart · May 10, 2018

Hippo said:
Ere we go again picking ont Freelanders. If it lets yer feel betterer about the failings of yer own rust heaps then that ok with us.

The reason why Freelanders lift a wheel is because we only need 3. Balance and agility is the art of true control of a vehicle. Balancing on 3 wheels reduces tyre wear anorl.

that would explain why desert sand lizards lift alternate feet up, lol

Hippo · May 10, 2018

gstuart said:
that would explain why desert sand lizards lift alternate feet up, lol

Must be why I've never seen a cross axled lizard

Nodge68 · May 10, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
HDC is brilliant and for laning works well. But on technical terrain is too fast and unlike the D3 and newer models isn’t programmable

The D3s adjustable HDC is a really nice touch, that the Freelander could have done with.
I found the D3 pitched just as much as the Freelander in axle twister situations. The air suspension not allowing full travel, particularly when it was set at off road hight. This allows the rear wheels to become airborne just as often as the Freelander does. With a D3, there a lot more vehicle to become unstable, which feels more alarming than being in the Freelander over the same ground.

gstuart · May 10, 2018

Nodge68 said:
The D3s adjustable HDC is a really nice touch, that the Freelander could have done with.
I found the D3 pitched just as much as the Freelander in axle twister situations. The air suspension not allowing full travel, particularly when it was set at off road hight. This allows the rear wheels to become airborne just as often as the Freelander does. With a D3, there a lot more vehicle to become unstable, which feels more alarming than being in the Freelander over the same ground.

hi

Ref full travel, is that where u turn the DSC off so that the suspension will act the same as a live beam axle plse, so indeed tries to keep it level as possible

thks

Nodge68 · May 10, 2018

gstuart said:
Ref full travel, is that where u turn the DSC off so that the suspension will act the same as a live beam axle plse, so indeed tries to keep it level as possible

To be honest Gary, I never touched the DSC at all. I did find the in Mud & Ruts mode, or standard mode with the suspension at off road hight, that the a rear wheel would be in the air when going over axle twisters as the above pictures show.

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