I believe B100 can be used as a direct replacement for dieso with no adverse effects. This is, of course, provided you get a good source of biodeisel. I have heard that an excess of methanol in the mix is the source of the rumours about biodiesel or vegetable oil degrading the rubber seals in the fuel pumps - methanol attacks the rubber. I would imagine any Bio bought at the garage pump would be Ok as this is regulated, home blends I am not so sure about. If Ming's about (search for his thread) he has a bit of experience with home production of biodiesel.
Yanick
New Member
I'm thinking of buying a Td4 to replace my current gaylander. Is it a good move ? All this veggie oil talk has me excited ! I'm even thinking of running it just as an experiment and as a second car. With the freedom of free fuel I can roam across this great land freely ! Can't get more freelander than that !
Is there anything I should look for in specific when buying the Td4 ?
I have already sourced 60 litres of free vegetable oil per week from local restaurants. I was going to get into the 'run your car on water' kit to save in fuel. . .But maybe this is allot better !
I'll be installing a 1000 litre water tank downstairs, and filtering the veggie oil as it comes.
What is the consensus regarding the veggie oil mix ? is it 50/50 or can you do better. . .Maybe someone can enlighten us with point by point instruction ?
Is there anything I should look for in specific when buying the Td4 ?
I have already sourced 60 litres of free vegetable oil per week from local restaurants. I was going to get into the 'run your car on water' kit to save in fuel. . .But maybe this is allot better !
I'll be installing a 1000 litre water tank downstairs, and filtering the veggie oil as it comes.
What is the consensus regarding the veggie oil mix ? is it 50/50 or can you do better. . .Maybe someone can enlighten us with point by point instruction ?
Yanick
New Member
here's a great link. I'm just a beginner so other beginners can have a read of this also.
Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel: Journey to Forever
Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel: Journey to Forever
Yanick
New Member
Yep.
After much reading it definatly appears that
[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Two-tank SVO systems are the go !
[/FONT]
Through much info sifting / this is the best part. . .To paraphrase. .
"[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]With two-tank SVO kits one tank holds the vegetable oil and the other petro-diesel (or biodiesel).
The engine is started on the petro-diesel tank and runs on petro-diesel for the first few minutes while the vegetable oil is heated to lower the viscosity. Fuel heaters are electrical or use the engine coolant as a heat source. When the fuel reaches the required temperature, usually 70-80 deg C (160-180 deg F), the engine is switched over to the second tank and runs on SVO.
Before the engine is shut down, it must be switched back to petro-diesel and the fuel system "purged" of vegetable oil before switching off, so that there's no cold veg-oil left to coke up the injectors next time you start the engine. Some systems have manual fuel switches, some do it automatically.
One of the few truly scientific studies available found that veg-oil must be heated to 150 deg C (302 deg F) to achieve the same viscosity and fuel performance as petro-diesel: "Atomisation tests showed that at 150 deg C the performance of the rapeseed oil is comparable with that of the diesel oil."[/FONT]
After much reading it definatly appears that
[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Two-tank SVO systems are the go !
[/FONT]
Through much info sifting / this is the best part. . .To paraphrase. .
"[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]With two-tank SVO kits one tank holds the vegetable oil and the other petro-diesel (or biodiesel).
The engine is started on the petro-diesel tank and runs on petro-diesel for the first few minutes while the vegetable oil is heated to lower the viscosity. Fuel heaters are electrical or use the engine coolant as a heat source. When the fuel reaches the required temperature, usually 70-80 deg C (160-180 deg F), the engine is switched over to the second tank and runs on SVO.
Before the engine is shut down, it must be switched back to petro-diesel and the fuel system "purged" of vegetable oil before switching off, so that there's no cold veg-oil left to coke up the injectors next time you start the engine. Some systems have manual fuel switches, some do it automatically.
One of the few truly scientific studies available found that veg-oil must be heated to 150 deg C (302 deg F) to achieve the same viscosity and fuel performance as petro-diesel: "Atomisation tests showed that at 150 deg C the performance of the rapeseed oil is comparable with that of the diesel oil."[/FONT]
The L series (XEDI) is more suited to veggie oil than the TD4 due to the fuel system design. You can run an unmodified L series on a mix of veggie and dieso, adding a small amount of dieso (about 20%) will thin the oil down to enable the car to run in the summer. As the weather gets colder a higher percentage of dieso must be used or you will experience cold start problems. To run on 100% veggie year round you would need a conversion with heat exchangers etc.
The TD4 has a common rail injection system, ie no injection pump. The fuel is raised to a high pressure in a common line by a pressure pump. Each injector is electrically operated (via a solenoid) to open at the correct time. The high pressures in this system (much higher than the pressures from the bosch injection pump in the L series) can cuase the oil to polemerise (very basically get thick and sticky) and can cause the injectors/piston crown/piston rings etc to 'gum up' which is bad news.
The TD4 has a common rail injection system, ie no injection pump. The fuel is raised to a high pressure in a common line by a pressure pump. Each injector is electrically operated (via a solenoid) to open at the correct time. The high pressures in this system (much higher than the pressures from the bosch injection pump in the L series) can cuase the oil to polemerise (very basically get thick and sticky) and can cause the injectors/piston crown/piston rings etc to 'gum up' which is bad news.
By the way, the 'run your car on water' is complete and utter bo***ks. It is possible to run a car on hydrogen (the basic priciple behind this - and with lots of modification) but you could never produce enough from an electric cell powered from a car. Think of charging your battery, you plug this into mains power and it will produce a few small hydrogen bubbles while on charge, now drop this from 240v to 12v - do you think this will work? Also, if it was possible to produce enough(WHICH IT ISN'T), you must use energy from the engine to produce the hydrogen and then use the energy from recombining the hydrogen with oxygen to make water again (burning) to produce energy to run the car. Due to energy losses from friction, resistance, heat etc etc you will produce less energy than you are putting in.
Yanick
New Member
Um. .
Yeah but the actual puprose for using the hydrogen in the first place / is to create uniform explosions in the combustion chamber / not run the car wholly from water.
Having read down to the facts, IMO it seems to actually work and save fuel. And that fella who ran the same system on a morris thinks so too. . .he went from 50mpg to 30.
But now i have my eyes on bigger 'fish' . .n chips. Cause its absolutely free for me.
Yeah but the actual puprose for using the hydrogen in the first place / is to create uniform explosions in the combustion chamber / not run the car wholly from water.
Having read down to the facts, IMO it seems to actually work and save fuel. And that fella who ran the same system on a morris thinks so too. . .he went from 50mpg to 30.
But now i have my eyes on bigger 'fish' . .n chips. Cause its absolutely free for me.
Are you sure? Looks like a drop in economy to me. You may be intereted in a site that i found www.runyourcaronnuclearpowerfromgardenwaste.com. With this process you get a simple cheap kit costing 99p which converts your engine into a small nuclear reactor, you then add add garden waste which has went through a special 'top secret process' using kitty litter to convert it into fuel grade uranium. The best bit is that the exhaust now prduces a fine yellow smoke containing mostly gold dust instead of radioactive waste. Guaranteed to make a huge saving. If it doesn't work it must be cos you didn't fit it properly.
Yanick
New Member
Actually. . .
I'd rather go with the heating design / simply because you don't need to mix the diesel (which is a further saving). The idea of having two tanks is a good one, switching between diesel on the first and last few minutes of running time.
The other thing (as someone mentioned earlier) about krout design on the Td4. .something to do with corrosion of rubber parts on the Xedi, , ,and I'm inclined to agree with the comments about krout design and how it will take 100% veggie oil.
I'm so happy i found you guys. I don't know anyone else doing this around town, so this is a great forum ! Really enjoying it.
I'd rather go with the heating design / simply because you don't need to mix the diesel (which is a further saving). The idea of having two tanks is a good one, switching between diesel on the first and last few minutes of running time.
The other thing (as someone mentioned earlier) about krout design on the Td4. .something to do with corrosion of rubber parts on the Xedi, , ,and I'm inclined to agree with the comments about krout design and how it will take 100% veggie oil.
I'm so happy i found you guys. I don't know anyone else doing this around town, so this is a great forum ! Really enjoying it.
A few points:
1. Vegetable oil DOES NOT rot rubber seals.
2. If you get some bad bio (home made) an excess of methanol can degrade rubber.
3. The fuel system on the L series is a Bosch system - isn't Bosch German?
4. The problem can come from the gumming of components, be warned, it is not a good idea to run a TD4 on 100% veg.
5. If you have a supply of WVO make sure it is treated properly before use.
1. Vegetable oil DOES NOT rot rubber seals.
2. If you get some bad bio (home made) an excess of methanol can degrade rubber.
3. The fuel system on the L series is a Bosch system - isn't Bosch German?
4. The problem can come from the gumming of components, be warned, it is not a good idea to run a TD4 on 100% veg.
5. If you have a supply of WVO make sure it is treated properly before use.
Yanick
New Member
Thanks george.
Your comments suggest in that case that I am in the market for an Xedi. . .rather than a Td4.
I intend to use WVO, but i have a plan. . .which is to invest in a good storage and filtration system for home.
anyhoo. .is olive oil any good ? I'm half wog so. . .maybe 50/50 hehehe.
On another plan / one reason i want to try this experiment is to run a power boat on the same principle.
Your comments suggest in that case that I am in the market for an Xedi. . .rather than a Td4.
I intend to use WVO, but i have a plan. . .which is to invest in a good storage and filtration system for home.
anyhoo. .is olive oil any good ? I'm half wog so. . .maybe 50/50 hehehe.
On another plan / one reason i want to try this experiment is to run a power boat on the same principle.
Yanick
New Member
Landies run hot. . .
I dunno. . .I supose the 'ideal' 'vengine' would have the fuel tank designed wrapped somehow around the head. Can fry an egg on those barstards so who knows ?
I suppose, you could also run fuel line which in part was also part of the muffler casing. . . .but all of these things would need to be designed pretty tightly.
in any case . . .the current kits have 'heaters' which run from the bat.
I dunno. . .I supose the 'ideal' 'vengine' would have the fuel tank designed wrapped somehow around the head. Can fry an egg on those barstards so who knows ?
I suppose, you could also run fuel line which in part was also part of the muffler casing. . . .but all of these things would need to be designed pretty tightly.
in any case . . .the current kits have 'heaters' which run from the bat.
Hi, I managed to get some oil from Makro last weekend £18 for 20 litres so about 90p a litre not bad compared to £129.9 but I have been speaking with a local chip shop and they said I can have there old oil for free 
but how do I filter it to take out bits of fish and chips? anyone already doing this have any tips?
but how do I filter it to take out bits of fish and chips? anyone already doing this have any tips?
Pikey
Dummy Ejection Facilitator..
Old tights do a good job of filtering out the large solids but then you need to treat it with nasty chemicals to turn it into Bio If you just filter it and pour the old oil straight into you tank you risk knackering your engine. CharlesY did a guide to making your own Bio on here. and there are thousands of site on the web that explain what needs to be done.
Yanick
New Member
I've not started yet /
but have been reading into it last couple of days. The oil needs to be filtered down to a certain micron. . .
[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]"We do not recommend using the 30 micron as the final filter at any time. As the final filter, that micron rating will cause problems with the injection equipment in terms of wear/injector plugging, etc. We recommend using the Fuel Manager 5 Micron element (there are many lengths to choose from) as the final filter. If the system is 'common rail' then we recommend using the Fuel Manager 2 Micron." [/FONT]
but have been reading into it last couple of days. The oil needs to be filtered down to a certain micron. . .
[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]"We do not recommend using the 30 micron as the final filter at any time. As the final filter, that micron rating will cause problems with the injection equipment in terms of wear/injector plugging, etc. We recommend using the Fuel Manager 5 Micron element (there are many lengths to choose from) as the final filter. If the system is 'common rail' then we recommend using the Fuel Manager 2 Micron." [/FONT]
Hi, I managed to get some oil from Makro last weekend £18 for 20 litres so about 90p a litre not bad compared to £129.9 but I have been speaking with a local chip shop and they said I can have there old oil for free
The nasty chemicals used to produce bio are methanol and caustic soda which are used to remove the glycerine from the oil to enable it to be used at cold temperatures. This can be done with waste or new oil. I think that WVO can be filtered to at least 5 micron and have the water removed then used as fuel. There are different methods for removing water, ming done a bit of it, search for his thread - vedgey gaylander - and have a read. There's a lot of 'waffle' in there but some good info.
Yanick
New Member
I think I'll leave the producing of bio to the scientists
and stick with the easy option of nipping to Makro every other week 
