Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The IRD is cooled in the factory setup. It runs pretty hot without cooling water, as its out of air flow passing underneath the vehicle, but it's taking all the torque from the gearbox.Re cooling.
I dont know the IRD, But which runs cooler or does the IRD need heat?
Why not run IRD first then to the motor or viki versua on 1 line?
Just trying to simplify your plumbing woes.
J
With the EV conversion, it could potentially run even hotter, due to increased torque from the motor.
It's best to plumb it for cooling now, rather than try to plumb in later if it's subsequently found cooling is needed.
You sort of misunderstood.
I didn't say don't cool it. Just trying to suggest a simpler cooling route.
Put the IRD first inline for cooling, or second in line.
Or run a 15/10mm line to the IRD and a 22mm to the motor natural restriction.
J
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I'm more concerned to make sure the coolant flow is good through the motor and inverter than the IRD as they are way more valuable and I have a spare IRD. With this in mind I think I'll change it so the straight path goes through the IRD (to ensure it gets good flow) but then put the Y connector immediately after the IRD. This way some coolant will go through the IRD but all coolant will go through the motor etc.
I have the coolant flow pushing away from the coolant bottle towards the IRD, so hopefully it will be OK. It is not flowing through the bottle in the same way it is with the heater bottle. This is because the Freelander bottle has one large outlet and a very small inlet and the Leaf bottle had a large inlet and outlet.
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Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Possibly.
I think Ali is concerned with the IRD cooler restricting the coolant flow to the rest of the system. The IRD cooler plate has 10mm OD pipes, but the motor and inverter have 19mm OD pipes. So the concern is that the IRD could cause a flow issue, causing the expensive motor or inverter to overheat. I think the plan is to ensure full flow to the expensive parts, but restricting flow to the IRD, as the cooler pipes obviously require less cooling through those tiny pipes.
For this to work there would need to be 2 flow rates in the system, a high rate through the motor/inverter, splitting after the lager connections, sharing the IRD and a parallel flow restriction on the return. At least that's how I would do it.
2 flow rates in 1 system yep sorted by different sized pipes, isn’t it? Oh and I was guessing the size of pipework.
As I said I don’t know what temps either of these get to (or need) . But it’s simple plumbing dynamics.
J
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Yes mate, and the pipe sizes are close enough but three different sizes not two.
Right or wrong this is what I've done:-
The pump is to the left of the photo pushing coolant to the right. The coolant flows straight through the T piece into the IRD and takes a 90deg turn towards the Y piece. It comes out of the IRD into the other side of the Y piece then on to the motor. I figure this gives the IRD the best chance of getting cooled while still ensuring full flow through the expensive electronics. I'll monitor the IRD temps once on the road.
The complication here is I'm reusing old pipework from both the Leaf and Freelander with three different sizes of pipe and fitting all connected together.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Good guess. I'm going by experience on the IRD, but I'm guessing on the electronics gubbins sizes from watching videos on the subject.
There was a chap with a similar setup in the RX7, who cooked his inverter by using it without cooling for several weeks, so I don't think there's much need for extreme cooling. An EV is electrically pretty efficient, so not much energy will be wasted as heat, but I guess it's better to err on the side of caution, and install more cooling than is needed.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Looks good to me Ali. I think its sensible to monitor the temps through the system once up and running, but as long as all components get coolant flowing, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine. Dave ran his RX7 without any cooling for some time, and it took a hot day to cook his inverter.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I was concerned I would end up with an air lock or have the coolant trying to flow in the wrong direction if the flows and pressures were wrong but hopefully with this simple setup as described it will be OK. I still think the IRD will need less cooling not more due to the exhaust and hot engine no longer being beside it but I still want to ensure it is cooled.
Now I've sorted this I can start installing the charger, Inverter and batteries.
Once I've routed the cabling for the pumps and vacuum sensor of course.
And cable tied everything so the steering arms don't wreck them.
It never ends.
Can I ask.
bottom of the pic big pipe? Feed or return to the motor? Dont matter it has a restriction into the small pipe.
Or is it the same size it’s just the covering?
J
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Ah but this was an EV conversion. It's faster than a factory RX7 too, and much less noisy.My RX7 had a variable speed water pump
J
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
I quite like the RX7, except for the fuel consumption. Actually thinking about it, the EV converted one is an RX8, with the suicide rear doors.Ah but mine was faster than factory and a lot more noisy
J
I always had a soft spot for the rotary engine, has/had its downsides. Still do.
but it runs on hydrogen really well, just thought I would Chuck that in and no we are not gonna have a discussion about it in Ali’s EV fred
.J
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
No, Ali wouldn't want hydrogen comment on his EV thread.I always had a soft spot for the rotary engine, has/had its downsides. Still do.
but it runs on hydrogen really well, just thought I would Chuck that in and no we are not gonna have a discussion about it in Ali’s EV fred
J
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Both water pumps have variable speed and can be controlled by an Arduino. I set them to run at half speed which seems to be about right but could make them variable if I needed to.My RX7 had a variable speed water pump
J
It's the feed for the motor, you can follow it back to the Y piece I was talking about. I decided it was better to have the coolant flow to the bottom of the motor first, then fill the motor etc on the way up. My theory is it's less likely to air lock that way but happy to hear from any plumbers out there who might know better.
The Leaf pipework is a good deal bigger than the Freelander so it's a pain trying to force Freelander hoses onto Leaf connectors but with a little washing up liquid I got there. I think a bit of flushing with clean water will be in order before putting in coolant.
DON'T YOU DARE!!!!!I always had a soft spot for the rotary engine, has/had its downsides. Still do.
but it runs on hydrogen really well, just thought I would Chuck that in and no we are not gonna have a discussion about it in Ali’s EV fred
J
Don't forget that on both the TD4 & 1.8, the IRD cooling comes from the engine block, and returns via the heater core. In this case the engine will be getting cooler fluid than the IRD.
Personally the idea above of a Y-pipe after the pump, with different pipe sizes to split the flow accordingly is probably the best idea. There's good flow diagrams in RAVE for the IC engines, so plenty of info you could use there.
Personally the idea above of a Y-pipe after the pump, with different pipe sizes to split the flow accordingly is probably the best idea. There's good flow diagrams in RAVE for the IC engines, so plenty of info you could use there.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Thanks mate, I to me that the IRD may need heating as well as cooling but if so there's not much I can do about that.
In any case without having full flow through the IRD, which may restrict the flow for the electronics and motor this was the best I could do for it.
Damn! I just realised I may have missed a trick.
If the IRD tends to run hot I should have plumbed the heater core through it so the IRD can assist HV electric HV heater.
Any thoughts guys on whether the cabin heater matrix would be enough to cool the IRD?