parxuk · Jul 21, 2020

Thanks Nodge68.
When the garage deleted the swirl flaps from my 530D BMW, they had to fit metal blanking plates.
You think with this engine it's just a case of snapping off the plastic flaps and then replacing the cover?
Any pictures you can take, and an idiots guide or whatever on how to do it would be very much appreciated.
Would love to see a picture of your swirl flap condition. My FL2 has 130K on the clock, so I am feeling a bit vulnerable at the moment.
I contacted a local Free Lander specialist near me yesterday (Steve Hill, Bristol) to inquire about removing the swirl flaps, and they didnt seem to have a clue what I was talking about.

Edit: I have emailed them again and sent them some links to forum posts referencing issues with swirl flaps. They say "the only way to prevent this is to replace the manifold
Seems a lot of expense if your not experiencing any issues right now
To date we have never replaced one, which speaks volumes"

The garage http://www.stevehilllandrovers.co.uk/ are a well respected specialist and have no reason to give me bad information. In fact they are almost doing themselves out of work by telling me it's not an issue.
I'm not saying that the Swirlflaps dont fail. But if its a 1 in 100,000 chance (for instance) maybe it's not worth worrying about?
The BMW forums I used to frequent were littered with tails of woe, but it doesn't really seem to be a topic on Land Rover forums.

Is it stupid to bury my head in the sand?

Alibro · Jul 21, 2020

Hi Nodge, just spotted this thread so very excited for you. Well done for bagging a bargain (hopefully)
Health to drive is what they say in these parts and good luck with the repairs.

rob_bell · Jul 21, 2020

Looking forward to hearing how this new project develops!

Nodge68 · Jul 21, 2020

Alibro said:
Hi Nodge, just spotted this thread so very excited for you. Well done for bagging a bargain (hopefully)

Thanks Ali. Just how much of a bargain it is, depends on how much it costs me to sort out.

Alibro said:
Health to drive is what they say in these parts and good luck with the repairs.

Interesting saying that.
Thanks.

rob_bell said:
Looking forward to hearing how this new project develops!

This project isn't starting too well actually Rob. It completely failed to start this evening, resulting in a flat battery, and lots of messages on the display, including one that read CRASH!!! then the hazard lights came on and the doors which weren't unlocked, unlocked.

So I'm assuming the battery voltage dropped low enough for the CJB to get thoroughly confused and assumed it's crashed, at least that's what I'm hoping.

To top it off, my once working Delphi clone has now stopped working, which is just typical.

So now I'm not sure what to do for a diagnostic device, as the I930 isn't really up to the task on the FL2. Ideally I need the Gap Diagnostics IID BT, but I seriously doubt the wife will go with that at about £400.

I've put my FL1 SE battery on charge as its new, and then I'm going to start stripping down the FL2 engine so I can check it out thoroughly, as when it was cranking over, it appeared to be down on compression on one cylinder.

rob_bell · Jul 21, 2020

Eek!!!

if compression is down on one cylinder, then going “full send” and taking the head off is definitely the way to go.

I don’t know this engine, but I guess a full re-fresh is a way of adding a silver lining?

Also, isn’t £400 on decent diagnostic kit on top of a very cheap car worth at least £700 more is still a really good deal?

kernowsvenski · Jul 21, 2020

Well done on the new motor John. Looks very nice. Hope it all goes well. I'll pop over in a couple of weeks for that little job, and check it out at the same time.

SWalker · Jul 22, 2020

so to part answer my own post i found this in the repair manual
NOTE: The TD4 engine cylinders are numbered from the rear of the engine (transmission end). Therefore, Number 1
cylinder and number 1 injector are located at the rear of the engine.

Hippo · Jul 23, 2020

Try yer diagnostic again when the battery is charged. I have forced mine into limp mode to see what happens when the dpf is full. When getting the restricted performance message I found me iidbt wouldn't talk to my FL2. An old elm327 and hawkeye could. To remove the limp mode I disconnected and reconnected the battery. All diagnostics back to normal as the all worked. I have had the same happen several times when messing about. Does yer diag work with other vehicles still?

Nodge68 · Jul 23, 2020

SWalker said:
NOTE: The TD4 engine cylinders are numbered from the rear of the engine (transmission end). Therefore, Number 1
cylinder and number 1 injector are located at the rear of the engine.

That's correct. It's just typical for Ford/PSA to use a numbering system, different to anyone else's.

Hippo said:
Try yer diagnostic again when the battery is charged.

Unfortunately I'm limited as to diagnostics at the moment.

I have an Icarsoft I930, which works, but is basic.

I also have a PC based Delphi clone, which doesn't work now W10 has done update.

Hippo said:
To remove the limp mode I disconnected and reconnected the battery. All diagnostics back to normal as the all worked

It's not in limp mode now, it just won't do anything, except flash CRASH on the dash. When I've time, I'll try some tricks to remove this warning.

Hippo said:
I have had the same happen several times when messing about

What CRASH on the dash, with hazards on?

Hippo said:
Does yer diag work with other vehicles still?

The I930 does, the Delphi isn't working, but hopefully Pro will sort that out for me later.

Hippo · Jul 23, 2020

Nodge68 said:
..
What CRASH on the dash, with hazards on?
...

No. Getting back to normal driving mode when stuck in restricted performance mode due to full pdf. I have found a number of fault conditions which need the battery to be disconnected then connected in order to get full access to diagnostics again. Not sure why this is as I haven't investigated. I don't think it's a fault as such. More a case of my FL2 shutting down. I know they remove power from the odbii connector when switched oft. Some bigger LR's don't remove the power in the same way, which may be why they're so easily stolen.

If your's is crash locked then it must think it's been crashed and flagged a warning. Does it happen every time you try to start it?

Nodge68 · Jul 23, 2020

Hippo said:
If your's is crash locked then it must think it's been crashed and flagged a warning. Does it happen every time you try to start it?

I've only tried starting once after CRASH mode activated. This mode activated after the starter failed to crank the engine due to the battery being flat.

I've read countless accounts of a similar thing happening when the battery is flat. Its something to do with corrupt data on the CAN.

There looks to be a silly messing about process to get it to start, but then it needs to go on the LR software to have the code removed.

I don't believe the vehicle has been involved in an accident at all, as there's nothing pointing that way. It's a software thing I'm sure. It had already flash up HDC failure Special to off when I tried starting it initially.

I'll get to it with the Delphi clone, now it's activated again (thanks Pro), but I need time to get the testing done.

I'll this thread up to date.

Alibro · Jul 23, 2020

If you're getting a miss fire then it's probably pushing unburned fuel into the DPF causing a problem. Either there or into the oil.
I had a lot of DPF issues with my Zafira but it turned out the issue was a dodgy sensor. Of course I only discovered this after replacing the DPF and sending the old one back.
Could the CRASH warning be something to do with an inertia sensor somewhere?

Nodge68 · Jul 23, 2020

Alibro said:
If you're getting a miss fire then it's probably pushing unburned fuel into the DPF causing a problem. Either there or into the oil.

There's no DPF fitted to my FL2 Ali. I'm not keen on them, so specifically looked for a pre-2009, where the DPF was less likely that the 2009 onwards models. The oil level is up a bit, but it doesn't smell of diesel.

Alibro said:
Could the CRASH warning be something to do with an inertia sensor somewhere?

There's a full complement of accelerometers fitted to the FL2, but I believe this is a CAN error, over anything else.

I'll know more once I get it running again. When the weather improves, I'll start stripping the engine down, to see what's up with it.

Nodge68 · Jul 25, 2020

Not done anything to the FL2, other than put a the new battery I got for the FL1 on charge, so it can begin a new life in the FL2.

I also had a delivery of a few essentials, for the up coming work on the engine.

Nodge68 · Jul 26, 2020

So I got some tinkering time on the FL2 this afternoon. So armed with a fully charged new battery, an Icarsoft I930 and the key, I set about trying to get it running. Well I completely failed to start it, which I believe is down to the CJB flagging a CHRASH code. While it was cranking over, I did take note of what it was doing and how it sounded. It's definitely not cranking with 4 regular compression strokes, causing me to come to the conclusion that it's down on compression on 1 cylinder.

I received a set of second hand injectors too, but I'll not be fitting those, until I can find out the cause of the low compression.

Next task is to strip down the intake manifold assembly, to assess the swirl flaps.

If a piece of flap is missing, then it's pretty safe to assume it went into the engine, probably bending valves as it did so.

I'll also need to check the turbo, as bits of plastic in there won't do much good either.

I'll start working on it as and when time allows. I'm not in any desperate hurry to have it on the road, so can take my time and do the job right, whatever that might be.

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2020

Well today the rain cleared away for an hour or so, which gave me enough time to remove the fuel filter assembly, and get the inlet manifold off.

The swirl flaps were in good condition, with no missing pieces. However this doesn't explain the low compression on 1 cylinder. There was also a lot of evidence that the inlet manifold has been off before, which makes me wonder if its a replacement, and the previous one dropped a flap.

Next job is to remove the undertray so I can rotate the engine and get my endoscope in the various ports in head, to check for bent valves.

raywin · Jul 27, 2020

Arctic2 said:
Hi Raywin.
What bolt & washer was used please where from, what tool did you use to produce the thread, what drill size, any danger of drilling into anything during the process, and best way to go about it please.

I bought the magnetic sump plug from Opie oil, it's made by goldplug, drilled and tapped it to suit I think it's 14 mm has to be correct length too, I already had a tap to suit but be careful to get the right thread pitch, you need a copper washer as the thread is parralel, and be certain to get the threads square to the surface that the washer seals on or it won't seal.
If you had a rumble on the way home could be the diff pinion bearings are on their way out.
I recently changed my fuel filter and I trapped some air in the line, it coughed and spluttered, you need a pump or syringe when you fit the filter to pull the air out and purge the system, if I were you I would make that job number 1 you never know your luck

Took a while but here is the one I used:
https://opieoils.resultspage.com/search?secure=1&w=sump plug AP 08

raywin · Jul 27, 2020

Take a look at post number 4 here:
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic35647.html?highlight=fuel+filter

raywin · Jul 27, 2020

Look at the post on page two shows the place to extract the air.
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic35028.html?highlight=fuel+filter&start=15

I suspect you have a leak letting air into the line.

Nodge68 · Jul 28, 2020

Today I discovered the issue with the engine.

It sounded like it was down on compression in one cylinder. So I decided I'd jumper the starter, cranking it over with the inlet manifold off. The issue was instantly visible, as there was a chuff chuff chuff out of No1 cylinder lower inlet port, as well as visible puffs of vapour to accompany the chuffing sound.

So I have a cylinder where at least one inlet valve is leaking.

Until I get the head off, I'll not be able to do a more thorough inspection as to the cause.

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