If I win the Euromillions tonight would I buy a luxury 4*4 with all the bells and whistles? Absofeckinlutely I would, would I buy a Rangie? Not a chance. The simple reason is the Range Rover doesn't have the reputation for reliability. I know that any vehicle with that amount of electrickery is going to be expensive to fix and I won't be able to do it myself but with that amount of money cost won't be a prime motive, reliability will.

I'm sure that if I bought a new Rangie and it had a problem the local JLR dealer would sort it out under warranty but I'd want a vehicle that didn't really need a warranty because it just kept going. So on reputation it would have to be a Toyota I'm afraid.

Most of the comments on this subject seem to be along the lines of-
" I don't/won't buy a new Land Rover vehicle." So none of you matter to Land Rover.
"I think LR should make the same vehicles as they did years ago ie Series type Land Rovers and Classic Range Rovers" We all know what nearly happened to LR when they continued making those sort of vehicles during the British Leyland days when the rest of the world moved on and the Japanese stole their markets. In any case the law would not now allow new vehicles like that to be sold.
The majority of new car buyers want many toys to swank with, and do not do their own repairs. They want the latest thing. If LR are getting it wrong, why is it they can sell every one they can make, and have waiting lists? I think we should be proud of Land Rover as a British success. And I wish the OP every success with his project.

Sheffield - that's part of the problem. Consumers have become too greedy and expect new and revolutionary things quicker than they can be fully developed and tested. JLR, and probably most other manufacturers at the moment, sell their cars, in my opinion, because of clever marketing rather than the product they actually sell.

There is a large gap between what JLR used to make and what they make now. They don't have to start making S1's again in order to do well, but I think they'd benefit from cutting out some of the crap they are doing now.

I can't speak for all customers, but my mother-in-law recently gave up her 10 year trend of having less than 4 year old range rovers. She got fed up of the unreliability and found that it didn't actually suit her needs. She's since got a nice Defender 300tdi. She looked at the 2.4tdci new model defenders but decided she'd rather have a 21 year old model instead. This isn't an enthusiast, this is general public going to view JLR's offerings in a show room, having had their flagship models for nearly a decade, and then deciding to buy something that she thought was better quality, yet 20 years older.

Furthermore, I've got fairly recent personal experience of buying new cars - a 13 plate BMW 1 Series. Its only a work vehicle with my LR being the weekend and evening run-around, but I'm seriously considering whether to bother next time. I got it because I have found that BMW provide(d) decent quality, reliable cars, having had a few older 3 Series' in the past. But this new thing doesn't have that quality feel, it's flimsy and uninspired. It's got toys for the sake of toys, and I think next time I'd rather stick to the used car market and get something better

what LR need to do, is buy a ship load of dacia dusters, slap a landrover badge on em and flog em for 10 grand.





something like that anyway

actually change that



The business framework is already in place with Cherry in ching chong. They should just get Cherry to build a copy of a dacia and flog that for £6000!!!

then you have yer posh market and the cheapo market

Bish bash bosh job done



oh jlr should you do this, i have it in writing here that it is my idea... so my cut is just 0.01% of profits. I think thats fair?

A few do. But most people wouldn't use such a cast vehicle off road in this country. Our off road spaces are too tight, bushy/scratchy for anyone to consider. Places with wide open spaces like US, australia and middle east would. So sand and dust resistance.

Land Rover need to go back to making vehicles for Land Rover type people, who live Land Rover type lives....

So, owners of new LR products are unlikely to be here. On a personal note I have never paid more than 500 for a car, in my fleet manager days, then things were rather different. For getting teams across Africa or Latin America, the usual choice was a Toyota Landcruiser. I would have gone for Gwagen but too costly. At here in the UK, then RR were used at times, simply because of the image, not the capabilities.

You go ask a current new owner what they want and I am going to guess they want more tricks, not less.
Auto-hitch for trailers/caravans, with a little camera pointing right at the towbar.
Auto-low ratio (trickle throttle) for manoeuvring such trailers/caravans gently
Traction control biased towards wet grass issues on rubber band tyres with road tread.
Wireless reversing cameras for trailers etc
DVD multi-disc so everyone can watch their own movie without arguments.

Forget the X5/M-class market, back to basics. Go to a campsite, look at the number of Kia Sportages that are there, does all the freelander does, at a much lower price, and has a rep of reliable, not showy.

Build the Dacia, Build an early Isuzu trooper, Build vehicles to do a job, not portray an image. Leave images to the J half, and let the LR half concentrate on working vehicles.

I know however that such an attitude is business suicide, we dont see electric milk floats round too much anymore because they were too good, too cheap, too reliable, too ideal for their job, and perhaps the same can be said of early defenders, RR & Discos, (bar the rust) They were just too good at their job. However adding new tricks, a new shell every 3-5 years keeps the customers coming back for the latest bling and gizmos.

ImperialCollegeRRproject said:

Do you think that the G Waggen is also a valid alternative to RR?

Click to expand...

No, but the Toyota Land Cruiser and Shogun/Pajero are.
G Waggen is a Defender competitor, fast replacing the Defender in the military of many countries.

As others have said, I don't think there are many owners of newer Range Rovers on here, simple because they are impossible to do any work on yourself - you need to take it to an approved workshop in most cases with the specific equipment. I like all Land Rover products, however the fact that the entire range bar the Defender (which will be stopped from next year) has to be worked on this way ruins the aura of the vehicle that it is supposed to be. Land Rover made it's name making adventure vehicles that were strong and capable. Whilst the new models are certainly capable (been on the experience day myself) they are simple too expensive to take off road. I mean, if you even scuff one of the precious aluminium panels on the new Range Rover (or other models for that matter) the cost of a repair would be tremendous. Given I'm pretty sure 75% of Range Rover owners bought their vehicle with finance or a pay monthly option I, highly doubt they would off road the vehicle as they didn't have the money to buy it outright in the first place, let alone pay for off road repairs.

Despite my negativity of the brands recent movements, I find the vehicles impressive examples of engineering, I just wish they weren't so isolated from the Land Rover owner. Although we don't know what's coming yet in terms of the Defender's replacement - we can be fairly sure it's not going to be a stand out vehicle like the current model which is not only iconic for the country but a symbol of adventure and capability. For example, the replacement I bet will have independently sprung suspension, like EVERY other vehicle on the road making it more like a normal car than a utility 4x4 which is what it should be. Such a change will make the vehicles drivetrain / suspension fairly difficult to modify for those who need it to perform beyond the ordinary. I fear the Range Rover has suffered a similar fate. It's branded as being a luxury car that can get you up the driveway of your big house if a little snow was to fall. Not a luxury adventure vehicle which it should be and has been. Although Land Rover's sales have been hitting new heights in recent years with the release of these new models, all you have to do is look at the people driving them to see why. There's nothing the matter with these people but they're seen simply as cars to get them to and from the shops and school - not the background from which the Land Rover arose - they don't care, it's just a regular car to them, neither do they appreciate the engineering that went into features such as Terrain Response.

The engineers and Land Rover only have a minor part to play in this - it's the marketing department that is to blame. Land Rovers' are being portrayed as a fashion accessory, adverts show them prowling along city streets and on rural highways. What happened to the deep snow and sandy deserts? It's a Land Rover, not an Audi.

There's some spectacle

Personally I fully understand LR producing bling mobiles, it's where the big buck profits are sadly. However, they need to introduce some quality and reliablity because sooner or later the bubble will burst, but maybe TATA don't care and will sell JLR on before that happens.
I think that LR should produce sensible simple vehicles under the Defender marque and perhaps Discovery, there is a big market out there with military orders plus farmer, folks who want a tow vehicle etc. Reliablity and ease of servicing would be essential.
I have a P38 not because I'm a fan of LR but because it was a third of the price secondhand to a Land Cruiser and half the price of a Pajero.

All,

Apologies I havent been on the forum today, I had a coursework deadline to meet. Thanks you very much for all your help and contributions to this thread. Some very interesting themes have emerged that will be central to structuring customer research.

Thanks for your patience. I've learned alot about how to interact with you guys.



Kind regards
Siv