farriermatt

farriermatt

Active Member
Ok I lied but i am stuck with fixing my daughters car (clio d4f 722 1.2 16v 120000 miles 05 plate) and i don't want to ask advice from a spotty yoth on a renault forum and as i have always got good information on my land rovers from the genius that is the landy zone collective, i thought i would give it a go!
Died after the cold spell i think it froze but i am not positive it didn't go slowly it was fine then it wouldn't start then it did and sounded awful and timing was all over the place So i took the top off and it is creamy in the rocker cover roof gaps and full of carbon around the camshaft and very purple! no mixing from the dipstick no oil in the radiator and no bubbling in the radiator when i got it running . Have changed the coil block. The timing belt is ok and in place.
Doe a cracked head manifest itself differently from a head gasket failure? Has anyone seen this sort of colour in the camshaft ie is it normal? i haven't seen this before but i am normally looking at diesel land rovers.
Hopefully i won't offend anyone by asking if i am missing something on this clio but i could do without buying her a new car as i'm saving for a 90!
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I am hoping just to get a recon head on ebay, unless you tell me otherwise.
 

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What makes you think its got a cracked head ?........ I can see pitted case hardening on the rockers and hard sludge/carbon build up elsewhere ( typical of high miles and a lack of oil changes)
 
+2 - dunt look very well at all that :( - have you had the oil and water tested? 120K with those lobes doesn't seem too bad
 
Moron said:
What makes you think its got a cracked head ?........ I can see pitted case hardening on the rockers and hard sludge/carbon build up elsewhere ( typical of high miles and a lack of oil changes)
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Thanks for the reply, it was really because it was damned cold when she parked it and at that point it hadbeen running great, just been for a driving lesson, next day i thought the battery was dead charged it it coughed and started ran really rough, so i put a coil pack on it, no improvement would start on and off but no revs just massive timing shudders and i put 1 1nd 3 together came up with 9 and decided it must have frozen .(i looked and there wasn't much water in it and it wasn't i nice blue colour!)
I only got this for her late last year , i know i should have serviced it.
So the general consensus is to stop skinning my knuckles on its tiny bolts and find her a vw?
 
Wont it be cheaper stick a new engine in it got one for a Corsa one with 55k on for £180 of the bay of E so one for a Clio shouldnt be much more
 
farriermatt said:
So the general consensus is to stop skinning my knuckles on its tiny bolts and find her a vw?
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If it was mine I'de give it a good service - oil, oil n air filters, spark plugs, coolant change and see how it goes. My daughter had a 54 reg 1.2 clio and it gave good service but it was well looked after by myself. Always used Halfords fully synthetic Renault spec oil.
 
Wimblowdriver said:
If it was mine I'de give it a good service - oil, oil n air filters, spark plugs, coolant change and see how it goes. My daughter had a 54 reg 1.2 clio and it gave good service but it was well looked after by myself. Always used Halfords fully synthetic Renault spec oil.
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To be honest i'm not sure i want to put it back together looking like that.
 
farriermatt said:
at that point it hadbeen running great, just been for a driving lesson, next day i thought the battery was dead charged it it coughed and started ran really rough
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If it suddenly runs like a bag of bolts it'll be a sensor of some variety has packed in and is sending a poor signal to the ECU, an 05 clio will be OBDII compatible so the ECU will have logged a code or another that you can pull with a basic scan tool, or possibly using some other method that rummaging on google might turn up, such as the "pedal test" on old vauxhalls. Then bring up an OBDII code list on google and just look for what it corresponds to. Failing all that if you have a good indy garage you get on with, they would likely plug it in and pull the codes for a few beers as it is a 5 minute job.

The early noughty petrol 4 banger engines are simple things - I'd put money (if i had any) on a shocking misfire just being a fueling related sensor, if timing is ruled out. The common ones at that age are the MAF and MAP sensor, or the pre cat O2 sensor.
 
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Goc3k said:
If it suddenly runs like a bag of bolts it'll be a sensor of some variety has packed in and is sending a poor signal to the ECU, an 05 clio will be OBDII compatible so the ECU will have logged a code or another that you can pull with a basic scan tool, or possibly using some other method that rummaging on google might turn up, such as the "pedal test" on old vauxhalls. Then bring up an OBDII code list on google and just look for what it corresponds to. Failing all that if you have a good indy garage you get on with, they would likely plug it in and pull the codes for a few beers as it is a 5 minute job.

The early noughty petrol 4 banger engines are simple things - I'd put money (if i had any) on a shocking misfire just being a fueling related sensor, if timing is ruled out. The common ones at that age are the MAF and MAP sensor, or the pre cat O2 sensor.
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Cheers thanks for the reply, i did put a obd scanner on it and connected ok for a change and the sockets in a really clever easy place, no faults unfortunately , I'm just taking the head off now i will pressure test it reseat the valves if its leaky and hopefully put it back together at the weekend if its ok with new gaskets etc and see what occurs. I don't think its the head now but i may as well clean it all up whilst i'm here. Its quite nice to work on surprisingly!
 
farriermatt said:
Cheers thanks for the reply, i did put a obd scanner on it and connected ok for a change and the sockets in a really clever easy place, no faults unfortunately
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Thats a bugger then, sometimes the cheap scanners can't read codes that are not emissions related mind - so it may yet be something like the crank / cam position sensor - Usually these are also common after 10 years, especially on french cars with poorly sealed plug connectors. If your scanner can read live data this can also give big hints to bad sensors, as you can guess roughly at air mass value or how much vacuum you should be seeing at idle / part throttle etc

farriermatt said:
I don't think its the head now but i may as well clean it all up whilst i'm here. Its quite nice to work on surprisingly!
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Dove right in then! Glad to hear it looks solid, hopefully it can be sorted out.
 
Goc3k said:
Thats a bugger then, sometimes the cheap scanners can't read codes that are not emissions related mind - so it may yet be something like the crank / cam position sensor - Usually these are also common after 10 years, especially on french cars with poorly sealed plug connectors. If your scanner can read live data this can also give big hints to bad sensors, as you can guess roughly at air mass value or how much vacuum you should be seeing at idle / part throttle etc



Dove right in then! Glad to hear it looks solid, hopefully it can be sorted out.
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I had a think about that and got a cheap nasty android one out of the drawer and it connected and came up with 3 codes 1 they are po638 po420 and po473 so i am looking at those on google now. I can't run it until i put it back together but those were the codes that came up just on the key turn. Thanks for the advice.
 
P0638 - Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Command Performance

P0420 - Catalyst System Low Efficiency

P0473 - Exhaust Pressure Sensor High


Sounds like a good mix of codes for poor running and misfires, essentially means the cat is clogged and there is a problem with the fly by wire throttle system - the throttle body is almost certainly an all in one unit on the clio, and the code will refer to a problem with either the pedal position sensor (where the accelerator levers from), throttle position sensor, the contents of the throttle body (i.e the actuator or motor etc is stuck / seized / has partly failed), or the read value does not match the expected value, i.e values are "out of range" - which could be a simple poor connection. Once the car is back together, get your newfound android code reader onto live datalogging mode if it has it and get a helper to watch the throttle body - the data logger will show the value sent to the ECU as a percentage, so if the throttle is wide open with the pedal fully depressed, and the value is 100%, and as you ease off the pedal - the throttle butterfly should shut at the same rate and match the percentage on the data logger.

If the throttle body is merely jammed up with oily carbon, I'd also check to see if the pcv / crank vent / breather system is working and not clogged up, and that if there is an EGR valve on the car it isn't stuck open or similar

Fingers crossed. Should be a good little runner after all this business, wish my first car (heap) had immediately been treated to a major service like this!
 
Goc3k said:
P0638 - Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Command Performance

P0420 - Catalyst System Low Efficiency

P0473 - Exhaust Pressure Sensor High


Sounds like a good mix of codes for poor running and misfires, essentially means the cat is clogged and there is a problem with the fly by wire throttle system - the throttle body is almost certainly an all in one unit on the clio, and the code will refer to a problem with either the pedal position sensor (where the accelerator levers from), throttle position sensor, the contents of the throttle body (i.e the actuator or motor etc is stuck / seized / has partly failed), or the read value does not match the expected value, i.e values are "out of range" - which could be a simple poor connection. Once the car is back together, get your newfound android code reader onto live datalogging mode if it has it and get a helper to watch the throttle body - the data logger will show the value sent to the ECU as a percentage, so if the throttle is wide open with the pedal fully depressed, and the value is 100%, and as you ease off the pedal - the throttle butterfly should shut at the same rate and match the percentage on the data logger.

If the throttle body is merely jammed up with oily carbon, I'd also check to see if the pcv / crank vent / breather system is working and not clogged up, and that if there is an EGR valve on the car it isn't stuck open or similar

Fingers crossed. Should be a good little runner after all this business, wish my first car (heap) had immediately been treated to a major service like this!
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Thanks for taking the trouble to put that so concisely thats a big help, i have nearly finished now just need a gasket for the fuel bank rail thingy and its done, then i can work on what the real problem was ! i did find a spot on the head gasket that was gone and it had had some of that pink gloop gasket fixer stuff in at some point as you can see it clogging up all sorts of bits so not a complete waste of time.
 
Worthwhile dismantling then, that bottled goo never lasts long term and doesn't do much good. Fresh HG and cambelt will keep nasty phonecalls for rescue down as well hopefully haha.

Mr muscle foaming oven cleaner works well in a pinch for cleaning plugged cats as well, the can one with the bendy tube (if the cat is fairly accessible within the down-pipe anyway), just make sure you take it off the engine first as it eats non ferrous metals. If the core falls out of it when you hose it out a few hours later you'll need a new one for the mot though
 
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