300bhp/ton said:
Could be the case. So last time I had an issue I was away on holiday. Parked up in the evening at the hotel and key worked fine. Next morning it didn’t work! Fortunately had the 2nd key with me. A number of weeks later when it was nice and dry out. I entered the EKA with the non working key and hey presto it worked again. But there car wasn’t disabled or anything. The other key would have worked perfectly with it.

I know there is micro switch issue in the door, hence unable to enter the EKa with a key if cold and damp out. But you also don’t press any remote fob keys entering the EKA. So I assume the syncing is down to the key rather than the door.

Btw after entering the EkA I always immediately start the vehicle with the key. That might also help. However if I’d unlocked the car with the working fob and then started it with the non working key it still wouldn’t have synced. On my p38 it always comes back to the EKa.
Click to expand...
I don't know what year your car is, but if it has the passive coil around the ignition barrel, I think what is happening is that you have a dodgy micro switch in the door lock, turning the key in the lock primes the BECM to resync the FOB which, if the passive coil is present will happen automatically when the key is put in the ignition. Multiple turns of the key maybe enough to operate the dodgy switch.
 
Last edited:
Datatek said:
I don't know what year your car is, but if it has the passive coil around the ignition barrel, I think what is happening is that you have a dodgy micro switch in the door lock, turning the key in the lock primes the BECM to resync the FOB which, if the passive coil is present will happen automatically when the key is put in the ignition. Multiple turns of the key maybe enough to operate the dodgy switch.
Click to expand...
Its a 1999 on a T plate. Log book says HSE, but it has the Thor engine (4.6) and 4 wheel traction control. I've got a letter from Land Rover explaining how it was upgraded by the Special Vehicles team to Vogue SE spec and badging. On this basis, I guess it is right at the cross over point for some of the changes.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Its a 1999 on a T plate. Log book says HSE, but it has the Thor engine (4.6) and 4 wheel traction control. I've got a letter from Land Rover explaining how it was upgraded by the Special Vehicles team to Vogue SE spec and badging. On this basis, I guess it is right at the cross over point for some of the changes.
Click to expand...
MY99 you should be well inside passive sync as standard. Passive coil function is mentioned in the 1996 (5th Ed) electrical troubleshooting manual onwards.... although of course with LR anything is possible! Mines a MY98, and I'm pretty sure my pasive coil has stopped working. I used to get a lot of requests to press button remote when I tried to start her. In the short term I just switched the immobiliser off and it's sorted it.... for now?
 
300bhp/ton said:
Its a 1999 on a T plate. Log book says HSE, but it has the Thor engine (4.6) and 4 wheel traction control. I've got a letter from Land Rover explaining how it was upgraded by the Special Vehicles team to Vogue SE spec and badging. On this basis, I guess it is right at the cross over point for some of the changes.
Click to expand...
Yes,1999 will have the passive coil.
 
MrGorsky said:
MY99 you should be well inside passive sync as standard. Passive coil function is mentioned in the 1996 (5th Ed) electrical troubleshooting manual onwards.... although of course with LR anything is possible! Mines a MY98, and I'm pretty sure my pasive coil has stopped working. I used to get a lot of requests to press button remote when I tried to start her. In the short term I just switched the immobiliser off and it's sorted it.... for now?
Click to expand...
It should stay sorted, turn off EKA as well and it will always operate on just the key if needed to. Turning off the immobiliser in actual fact makes mobilisation automatic, no FOB code or EKA code required.
 
Our 96 responded to key in lock, lock/unlock push the same button when no CDL (fob sync)
Or with "engine disabled" message. key in ignition push unlock , away we go. (it does have a replacement BECM if that makes a diff) Oh and all petrol GEMS cars, as diesel is diffenrent
Only had to enter EKA on a 95 V8, but then we didnt know the quirks then so maybe not relavant.

I would say its probably a door lock microswitch problem, if all other methods have been ruled out.

J
 
marjon said:
Our 96 responded to key in lock, lock/unlock push the same button when no CDL (fob sync)
Or with "engine disabled" message. key in ignition push unlock , away we go. (it does have a replacement BECM if that makes a diff) Oh and all petrol GEMS cars, as diesel is diffenrent
Only had to enter EKA on a 95 V8, but then we didnt know the quirks then so maybe not relavant.

I would say its probably a door lock microswitch problem, if all other methods have been ruled out.

J
Click to expand...
The only difference I can find between GEMS and diesel relates to the immobliser code, rolling for GEMS, fixed for diesel.
 
marjon said:
Or with "engine disabled" message. key in ignition push unlock , away we go. (it does have a replacement BECM if that makes a diff)
Click to expand...
That's what I had to do..... but every time I unlocked the door got very annoying! I think I've got EKA and Immobiliser off at the moment. Unlocks and starts without issue.... so far!
 
Datatek said:
The only difference I can find between GEMS and diesel relates to the immobliser code, rolling for GEMS, fixed for diesel.
Click to expand...
And fixed for Thor, I belive.
But thats for the starting, not entry? which I think is the original problem. Which of course can lead to engine immobiliser issues.

Key sync seems to be the issue. Which leads to door latch, for me.

J
 
marjon said:
And fixed for Thor, I belive.
But thats for the starting, not entry? which I think is the original problem. Which of course can lead to engine immobiliser issues.

Key sync seems to be the issue. Which leads to door latch, for me.

J
Click to expand...
I agree about the door latch.
I'm unsure about Thor. I assumed it was a rolling code from the information I have but it makes no difference to the basic operation of mobilisation.
 
Datatek said:
I agree about the door latch.
I'm unsure about Thor. I assumed it was a rolling code from the information I have but it makes no difference to the basic operation of mobilisation.
Click to expand...
Can you get the bits to repair the microswitches? I know someone used to offer a repair service, can't find their website now, so maybe no longer exist. I tried contacting them a number of years ago, but couldn't make head nor tail of how to go about purchasing from them.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Can you get the bits to repair the microswitches? I know someone used to offer a repair service, can't find their website now, so maybe no longer exist. I tried contacting them a number of years ago, but couldn't make head nor tail of how to go about purchasing from them.
Click to expand...
The micro switches can be replaced. The originals are in a block of three which cannot be obtained so I used three separate switches held in place with longs screws. It's a fiddly job getting the position just right. Once perfect, I filled the space behind them with hot glue to ensure they didn't move. If you don't fancy trying, it is said that some versions of the MG TF lock are the same as the P38.
 
Right, I've had a look at both mine and MrGorsky's doors and there's a difference; I think I have a duff microswitch, even though the central locking works. From memory, more than anything else ...

The lock actuator on the driver's side has 3 microswitches on the bottom of it. One is for turning the key left or right; one is for central locking being triggered (probably from the lever in the door pressing on the microswitch?); one is the door ajar switch. I cannot recall what the centre one is but the boot button grounds through it. I also remember a lever inside the lock actuator but whether that presses against the middle-switch or not I don't know. I suppose I should read RAVE or the Nanocom manual (RTFM)!

The Nanocom gives what looks like 4 relevant outputs:

Right Central Locking (RCL) 12V or GND.
Left Central Locking (LCL) 12V or GND.
Right Locking Key (RLK) 12V or GND.
Left Locking Key (LLK) 12V or GND.

Given there are only 3 switches and one of them is the door ajar switch (which shouldn't change state with the door shut) I can only assume the outstation does some logic as RAVE shows 3 lines for the connector for the right-hand door: a serial data bus line (clock); a serial data bus line (direction) and a serial data bus (data).

MrGorsky's locks give ...

SwitchTurn key right to unlock:Car unlocked. Key is central position:Turn key left to lock:Car locked. Key in central position:
RCLGNDGND12V12V
LCLGNDGNDGNDGND
RLKGND12VGND12V
LLK12V12V12V12V


We only get 2 values that change because the LCL is always GRD and LLK is always 12V?

From the above it looks as if everything sits sits at 12V when locked apart from the LCL (so the BECM knows the car is locked). Turn the key to unlock and the RLK goes to GND followed immediately by the RCL (assuming that goes to GND), so now only the LLK is at 12V. Release the key and RLK returns to 12V but because RCL and LCL are at GND the BECM knows the car is unlocked. Turn the key to lock and RCL changes to 12V and RLK goes to GND, although RLK reverts to 12V when you release the key.

Grrrrrr's locks give:

SwitchTurn key right to unlock:Car unlocked. Key is central position:Turn key left to lock:Car locked. Key in central position:
RCLGNDGND12V12V
LCLGNDGNDGNDGND
RLK12V12V12V12V
LLK12V12V12V12V

So my right-lock key never goes to ground and presumably that microswitch is duff. My central locking still works because its switch goes to GND when I unlock and it goes to 12V when I lock.

It occurs to me an unlatched switch and with 2 outputs could be used to make an emergency bypass module and have that by the driver's A-post for emergencies.

01234...
Switch at 12VPress switch downRelease switchPress switchRelease switchGo back to start!
Start with both outputs at 12V. Car is locked.Both outputs go to GND. Car unlocks.CL output stays GND. Key output goes back to 12V. Car is unlocked.CL output goes to 12V. Key output goes to GND. Car locks.Both outputs go back to 12V. Car is locked.

I assume this is the logic in the outstation. 1 = right turn. 3 = left turn. I'm sure someone has the ability to build this and know how to splice it into the Green / Red wire and the Blue / Red wire.

Well, I know what I mean. If I get a spare moment over the weekend and the weather isn't bad I might even take the door-card off and have a look.

Anyone remember which microswitch is the key one?!
 
Grrrrrr said:
Right, I've had a look at both mine and MrGorsky's doors and there's a difference; I think I have a duff microswitch, even though the central locking works. From memory, more than anything else ...

The lock actuator on the driver's side has 3 microswitches on the bottom of it. One is for turning the key left or right; one is for central locking being triggered (probably from the lever in the door pressing on the microswitch?); one is the door ajar switch. I cannot recall what the centre one is but the boot button grounds through it. I also remember a lever inside the lock actuator but whether that presses against the middle-switch or not I don't know. I suppose I should read RAVE or the Nanocom manual (RTFM)!

The Nanocom gives what looks like 4 relevant outputs:

Right Central Locking (RCL) 12V or GND.
Left Central Locking (LCL) 12V or GND.
Right Locking Key (RLK) 12V or GND.
Left Locking Key (LLK) 12V or GND.

Given there are only 3 switches and one of them is the door ajar switch (which shouldn't change state with the door shut) I can only assume the outstation does some logic as RAVE shows 3 lines for the connector for the right-hand door: a serial data bus line (clock); a serial data bus line (direction) and a serial data bus (data).

MrGorsky's locks give ...

SwitchTurn key right to unlock:Car unlocked. Key is central position:Turn key left to lock:Car locked. Key in central position:
RCLGNDGND12V12V
LCLGNDGNDGNDGND
RLKGND12VGND12V
LLK12V12V12V12V


We only get 2 values that change because the LCL is always GRD and LLK is always 12V?

From the above it looks as if everything sits sits at 12V when locked apart from the LCL (so the BECM knows the car is locked). Turn the key to unlock and the RLK goes to GND followed immediately by the RCL (assuming that goes to GND), so now only the LLK is at 12V. Release the key and RLK returns to 12V but because RCL and LCL are at GND the BECM knows the car is unlocked. Turn the key to lock and RCL changes to 12V and RLK goes to GND, although RLK reverts to 12V when you release the key.

Grrrrrr's locks give:

SwitchTurn key right to unlock:Car unlocked. Key is central position:Turn key left to lock:Car locked. Key in central position:
RCLGNDGND12V12V
LCLGNDGNDGNDGND
RLK12V12V12V12V
LLK12V12V12V12V

So my right-lock key never goes to ground and presumably that microswitch is duff. My central locking still works because its switch goes to GND when I unlock and it goes to 12V when I lock.

It occurs to me an unlatched switch and with 2 outputs could be used to make an emergency bypass module and have that by the driver's A-post for emergencies.

01234...
Switch at 12VPress switch downRelease switchPress switchRelease switchGo back to start!
Start with both outputs at 12V. Car is locked.Both outputs go to GND. Car unlocks.CL output stays GND. Key output goes back to 12V. Car is unlocked.CL output goes to 12V. Key output goes to GND. Car locks.Both outputs go back to 12V. Car is locked.

I assume this is the logic in the outstation. 1 = right turn. 3 = left turn. I'm sure someone has the ability to build this and know how to splice it into the Green / Red wire and the Blue / Red wire.

Well, I know what I mean. If I get a spare moment over the weekend and the weather isn't bad I might even take the door-card off and have a look.

Anyone remember which microswitch is the key one?!
Click to expand...
I don't go to all that trouble, I take the door card off and measure the contact resistance of the NC & NO contacts of each micro switch at the connector. Anything above zero ohms is likely to cause a problem.
 
Datatek said:
I don't go to all that trouble, I take the door card off and measure the contact resistance of the NC & NO contacts of each micro switch at the connector. Anything above zero ohms is likely to cause a problem.
Click to expand...

NC and NO?
 
Those tables are confusing.

Think of the door outstations as just extensions of the BECM. The BECM SID states the door latch detection is Edge triggered. Clearly this refers to the outstations, because the BECM gets serial data from them, although I suspect the BECM also needs to know the CDL state or it does not operate the motors properly (from experience on a failed passenger CDL)

From Post #4 in this thread:
Key switch should toggle 0v-12v when turning the key, i.e. 12V with key in centre, and ground when you turn the key. CDL should be 12V when door is locked (switch open), and Ground when door is unlocked. This way the BECM knows if you are turning the key right or left, and the door locked/unlocked status.

So locking the car, the key switch toggles 12V to 0V as the key is turned, and the CDL switch goes to the locked position (I'm sure it's 12V = locked, but will check on mine in morning). When the key is back in centre, the keyswitch goes back to 12V (open circuit), and the CDL stays in the locked position.

Unlocking the car simply toggles the key switch & the CDL closes sending 0V to the outstation & BECM.

FYI, when I had a failed (open circuit) passenger CDL, the BECM assumed the door was locked. Consequently when it was unlocked it would fail to lock the door !!
 
pwood999 said:
Those tables are confusing.

Think of the door outstations as just extensions of the BECM. The BECM SID states the door latch detection is Edge triggered. Clearly this refers to the outstations, because the BECM gets serial data from them, although I suspect the BECM also needs to know the CDL state or it does not operate the motors properly (from experience on a failed passenger CDL)

From Post #4 in this thread:
Key switch should toggle 0v-12v when turning the key, i.e. 12V with key in centre, and ground when you turn the key. CDL should be 12V when door is locked (switch open), and Ground when door is unlocked. This way the BECM knows if you are turning the key right or left, and the door locked/unlocked status.

So locking the car, the key switch toggles 12V to 0V as the key is turned, and the CDL switch goes to the locked position (I'm sure it's 12V = locked, but will check on mine in morning). When the key is back in centre, the keyswitch goes back to 12V (open circuit), and the CDL stays in the locked position.

Unlocking the car simply toggles the key switch & the CDL closes sending 0V to the outstation & BECM.

FYI, when I had a failed (open circuit) passenger CDL, the BECM assumed the door was locked. Consequently when it was unlocked it would fail to lock the door !!
Click to expand...

That is correct and describes what is in the tables. Two columns are with the key turned and two are with the key in the centre but locked or unlocked.
 
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