Cheers @discomania Very informative. 
Is the Td5 the only PD engine LR used?
Is the Td5 the only PD engine LR used?
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
Cummins engine is very similar... In fact the td5 engine is basically a scaled down lorry engine... They do like the motorways and can do silly mileage... You guys can welcomely use c3 oil in yours but I'll stick to my trusty 10w40 acea b4 or e4 in mine
Cheers
Cheers
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
C3 oils are low ash... I wouldn't put that in my td5 even if you payed me to
discomania
Well-Known Member
Cheers @discomania Very informative.
Yes, I think so, they all went common rail afterwards, but just to clarify the TD5 is not a PD, PD is the VAG injector's name. It is a unit injector engine.
discomania
Well-Known Member
Cummin's did/do make engines with unit injectors, but so did everyone else, it's not a Cummins thing, and arguably any diesel engine is a scaled down lorry engine or a vice versa, they are all just diesel engines. A 4x4 tyre is a scaled down rock truck tyre...
The issue with the ACEA C classifications is the weights it is available in, mind you 5W40 would not be a bad weight, nothing wrong with that, possibly just a little on the light side in the cold in a higher mileage engine, 10W40 is pretty much the grade I would stick in everything I change oil in unless it was an engine that specifically I knew needed a lighter oil. Go back and read my post about the weights in the cars rather than me re-post it.
By the way, the C class oils are good for turbochargers and the valves as they don't create the same waste particulate which is always an abrasive.
But basically there is nothing wrong with the C3 classification.
ACEA E class oils are good for long service life and stay in grade through tougher conditions for longer as they are designed to be in light commercials/trucks which may be running 18 hours a day hauling 44 tons up hills but are overkill for normal cars that have oil changes frequently. My last lot of oil was Mercedes Fleet oil designed for their commercials, a 10W40 and it was a good price - however,in the 90 that only did 1200miles between MoT's I discovered last Saturday?... total overkill.
This is all very interesting, but can someone educate me a bit more about the PD engine? I've done a bit of Googling, but I can't yet find a particularly informative site. Just bit's a pieces from different forums. I've gleaned that VW created the PD system. Did Ford create the common rail system? I've read VW invented PD to compete with the common rail system because they didn't want to pay the licence to use CR. I'm still unclear about the difference in operation of PD injectors to standard injectors, are they 'powered' or just with a spring? . I'm wondering what LR engines used the PD system.
I'm not saying the oil discussion wasn't interesting, just trying to broaden my mind.
Its all about pressure, to get cleaner burn you need finer atomisation of the fuel and the only way to achieve that is higher pressure, hence pd took over from std pump then common rail took over again.
Its one of them things that had to be done to meet the emissions.
Some of the truck common rail injectors could inject up to 5 times per piston stroke, but that was in 2006 so Im sure things have moved on again.
I have seen vw pd engine with worn cams, not a pretty sight.
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
Fair enough if you guys use c3 oils that's you're choice... But never will my 2005 td5 see that stuff... In the UK it doesn't get cold enough or hot enough to justify anything other than 10w40 in this engine... My fathers td5 engine has done 100.000 hard farming miles on 10w40 and the cam lobes looked like new... If I lived in Norway I would opt for a 5w but not here... Mind you some places in Scotland get quite chilly
discomania
Well-Known Member
You seem to be missing the point, no one ever said yes lets all use C3 class oil. 1 person put PD oil in their vehicle and wanted to know if it would be OK, yes it will be, he is not starting a motion to switch us all to C3 oil, no one else is doing it. It will actually be a good thing for the injector cam although it is overkill because unlike VW, LR actually got the cam/injector interface design correct... Yeah the weight is arguably on the light sided in the cold operating stage but not dangerously so and is still well within spec - his oil will behave the same way as your oil when the engine is running.
Also you continue to talk about C3 oil as if it is a single type, C3 is just the classification, it doesn't denote the weight. In fact you used to be able to get a 10W40 C3 oil, I reckon I could still get some if they have any left, Monaco made it. So a 10W40 C3 would be a better oil than a A/B classifications as the low ash and lower sulphuric pollutants is good for any engine.
All we get here is you nattering on about how much you won't put it in your engine, no one really cares about your engine - I have also said about 4 times now that 10W40 is a spot on grade and other posters have agreed.
lightning
Well-Known Member
Really interesting reading here!
Yes l put the oil in by mistake as l am going to Spain in it and wanted a fully synthetic 5w/40 rather than a 5w/30.
I tried to get 10w/40 but could only get it in semi synthetic.
Land Rover recommend an xx/40 grade oil for ambient temperatures over about 35deg and it's been over 40deg there.
Although by the time we go later this year that's a lot less likely!
Next time l change the oil will probably be in the Winter so it'll be back to the 5w/30.
Yes l put the oil in by mistake as l am going to Spain in it and wanted a fully synthetic 5w/40 rather than a 5w/30.
I tried to get 10w/40 but could only get it in semi synthetic.
Land Rover recommend an xx/40 grade oil for ambient temperatures over about 35deg and it's been over 40deg there.
Although by the time we go later this year that's a lot less likely!
Next time l change the oil will probably be in the Winter so it'll be back to the 5w/30.
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
I think that you need to sit down and take a deep breath, in your nose anddd out your mouth... We don't need to here your uneducated opinion about c3 oil... Lightening is passionate about his landy and he doesn't need a silly invertebrate jelly telling him to use the wrong oil... C3 oil is for cars fitted with a Dpf so therefore the wrong choice for the TD5 engine which doesn't have a Dpf... You're wrong about it being better as its low ash what a load of poppycock! Anyway remember in your nose and out your mouth
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
Hi lightening... Look at Mobil delvac xhp extra 10w40 fully synthetic,Probably the best oil you can have in you're engine even in the winter... But it is expensive... Or you could use Shell helix 10w40 which is a semi but really good, you would need to change this every 3 to 4k miles though... Sounds like fun driving to Spain... Jealous!!
lightning
Well-Known Member
Well, ferry to Santander then driving round Northern Spain....but yes really looking forward to it.
l see people are still arguing about the C3 oil being OK in my TD5 though. It's listed as medium in the SAPS rating so not totally devoid of additives.
Maybe l should put an additive in the oil!! Such as Millers.
l see people are still arguing about the C3 oil being OK in my TD5 though. It's listed as medium in the SAPS rating so not totally devoid of additives.
Maybe l should put an additive in the oil!! Such as Millers.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Wouldn't say discomania is uneducated. Read a lot of his posts, reckon he knows a lot about motors myself.
I reckon people get a bit too worked up over oil. Modern stuff is pretty good, you get a wide margin for error.
Oil and tyre posts often go this way.
There was a tyre post recently that bucked the trend though. The title was something like 'Quick Tyre Question'. I thought ha, no such thing. IIRC there was only about 3 replies
the best oil is new oil. the worst thing you can do is not change it regularly
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Oil and tyre posts often go this way.
Easy to get sucked in, but best ignored if possible!
chris-the-gerbil
Well-Known Member
Don't they just...
Oil is easy.
Use any specific oil the manufacture says if they do (so say BMW LL04 or VW501) Then get a good synthetic oil and match the hot running viscosity - that's the 40 from 10W40 for example to what the manufacters states for the temperature range you are in.
Make sure the lower number is as low as you can get it. 10W40 is ok 5W40 is better 0W40 better still - but expensive.
Change it when needed. Either you must get it analysed at a lab, or change it at the intervals specified.
If you don't follow that - you will probably still be OK as oil - as noted - has a wide margin for error these days. But if you did bang 10W60 into a motor expecting 5W30 it's not going to be as good as it could be...
Turboman
Mab An Gov
On the farm, I always bought big drums of 10/40 mineral diesel oil, and used it in everything. Ninety, tractor, wife's car, even the lawnmower.
Now, I buy big drums of Carlube 5/30 synthetic oil, and use it my car, and NBs Td5. I use the same mineral oil as above in the boat.
No worries, low cost, no waste, no hassle!
discomania
Well-Known Member
You are clearly an idiot.
