ozzyboydeano said:
LOL wammers bring your freinds i like a fair fight

obviously i see your 2 cents and was it worth it nope time to take you back to school also

you are now involved so please explain what wammers is missing

please explian compression ratios as it apears every diesel engine runs the same ratio
please explain EGTs
please explain efficiency on how a clean burn is performed
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I don't know so I keep my gob shut about technical stuff.As a largely self taught mechanic i have rebuilt many large capacity diesels for my lorries and tractors etc.All have performed properly and gone on to do more than500,000 k afterwards so I must have done something right.I don't need to know anything about mafs so don't concern myself other than to clean mine when it needs it
 
Joemac434 said:
I don't know so I keep my gob shut about technical stuff.As a largely self taught mechanic i have rebuilt many large capacity diesels for my lorries and tractors etc.All have performed properly and gone on to do more than500,000 k afterwards so I must have done something right.I don't need to know anything about mafs so don't concern myself other than to clean mine when it needs it
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may i as what engines in your lorries as i work on roadtrains as well as very large plant equipment my self
 
ozzyboydeano said:
so please explain to me ignition timing

are are you going to tell me to bugger off again lets see
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Why would you need that explained ? You set as the engine manufacture ,who has spent millions getting it right,says and the engine runs .No mystery.Goodbye now chap.No sense me asking wammers why he's wasting time and then doing it myself.Enjoy your day
 
Joemac434 said:
Why would you need that explained ? You set as the engine manufacture ,who has spent millions getting it right,says and the engine runs .No mystery.Goodbye now chap.No sense me asking wammers why he's wasting time and then doing it myself.Enjoy your day
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i am sorry this was meant to be for wammers

but your missing the point wammers asked why would he want to delete an egr then wammers carried on about the maf

infortuannatly for wammers he bit off more than he can chew i only question him are you his dad
 
wammers said:
You really are fu cking idiot. This diatribe is concluded.
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back to post # 28 you do not need instructions from me

then you carry on about the maf ...as you where schooled on the egr valve like i say it apears you have bitten off more than you can chew even when solid data is been posted

like i say please explain and pick the bones out of this vid




whats wrong mate is your tounge in a place where it shouldnt be here is the follow up vid

 
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wammers said:
It is certainly possible that certain MAF readings when combined with other sensor readings can determine the exact amount of fuel to be injected.
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I'm glad you finally realised the impossible, well done ....my only problem is that you triffled all my statements and kept saying i have no clue in a rude manner and now you say what i was saying from the beginning many times, one is here: EGR removal improvements where i didnt have a clue but then in the next post you said
Fuelling is not adjusted subject to airflow........
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and so on and kept inisting that the MAF is there ONLY FOR EGR NOTHING ELSE ...that was in most of your statements, if i start digging through all our debates i'll find that statement at least 10 times, so if i have no clue you dont have either saying the same thing like me or maybe it's possible that i might have had a clue ?

I've re-read all the threads were we had contradictory discussions and if you do the same you'll see that the gist of all my statements was that the MAF is part of the addaptive fuelling strategy , i've never said that fuelling is entirely calculated on it's inputs nor ever contradicted your obsessive statement that "the diesel engine is throttlet by fuel not by air"

IMO we could have had or could have more friendly polemics even i we disagree and that was my intention from the beginning then i started to respond in your manner cos i was fed up with all that humiliation

after this last statement of your's where you admit that the MAF is part of the addaptive strategy for fuelling calculations i have nothing more to say(except if you take it back somehow and you'll say you meant something else... which won't be a surprise for me at all)

consider that i offered you my hand... take it or keep telling that i have no clue
 
sierrafery said:
I'm glad you finally realised the impossible, well done ....my only problem is that you triffled all my statements and kept saying i have no clue in a rude manner and now you say what i was saying from the beginning many times, one is here: EGR removal improvements where i didnt have a clue but then in the next post you said and so on and kept inisting that the MAF is there ONLY FOR EGR NOTHING ELSE ...that was in most of your statements, if i start digging through all our debates i'll find that statement at least 10 times, so if i have no clue you dont have either saying the same thing like me or maybe it's possible that i might have had a clue ?

I've re-read all the threads were we had contradictory discussions and if you do the same you'll see that the gist of all my statements was that the MAF is part of the addaptive fuelling strategy , i've never said that fuelling is entirely calculated on it's inputs nor ever contradicted your obsessive statement that "the diesel engine is throttlet by fuel not by air"

IMO we could have had or could have more friendly polemics even i we disagree and that was my intention from the beginning then i started to respond in your manner cos i was fed up with all that humiliation

after this last statement of your's where you admit that the MAF is part of the addaptive strategy for fuelling calculations i have nothing more to say(except if you take it back somehow and you'll say you meant something else... which won't be a surprise for me at all)

consider that i offered you my hand... take it or keep telling that i have no clue
Click to expand...

Fuel quantity is not adjusted subject to airflow, air temperature maybe but not airflow. We are talking minute differences in injected fuel due to air density and fuel temperature. Think you need to read carefully what has been said. The MAF sensor is there primarily to give the ECU feedback of exhaust gas ingestion so that it can control it. On the MAF fitted to the P38 there is no measuring of inlet air temperature. That is a low preset in the ECU. That is what is used along with fuel temp readings to fine adjust injected fuel quantity. But the ECU still needs actual air temp to calculate airflow but does not use them for fuel quantity adjustments. Later EU and on EGR systems use an actual inlet air temp from the MAF along with fuel temp readings to do that. But that is not what you were arguing early on. And you know it.
 
I couldn't crop the whole page on that image i posted at page 4 and i highlighte just what i considered is relevant about the MAF, the whole text under the sensor's picture is as follows:
Identical MAFT sensors are attached to the air cleaner outlets, but only the MAFT sensor attached to the right air cleaner provides both MAF and temperature signals for the ECM. The engine harness connection with MAFT sensor of the left air cleaner is wired so that only the MAF signal is connected to the ECM.

"The MAF sensors work on the hot film principle. The MAF sensor output is a digital signal proportional to the mass of the incoming air. The ECM uses this data, in conjunction with signals from other sensors and information from stored fueling maps, to determine the precise fuel quantity to be injected into the cylinders. The signals are also used as a feedback for the EGR system.

The temperature sensor in the right MAFT sensor is a NTC (negative temperature coefficient) thermistor in a voltage divider circuit. Using the voltage output from the temperature sensor, the ECM can correct the fueling map for intake air temperature.

The MAFT sensors receive a 12V supply from the ECM relay in the EJB and a ground connection via the ECM. Separate connections to the ECMare provided for the two MAF signals and the temperature signal.

The ECM checks the calculated air mass against the engine speed. If the calculated air mass is not plausible, the ECM uses a default air mass figure which is derived from the average engine speed compared to a stored characteristic map. The air mass value will be corrected using values for charge air pressure, ambient air pressure and ambient air temperature."
.......................................................................................


the AIR MASS is calculated based on MAF readings... you are stuck in that "AIR FLOW through the MAF" thing which is not entirely correct as the MAF is used for AIR MASS(Kg/hr) caclulations, and even if the volume(amount) of air is steady in the cylinders the mass of it varies

so the MAF is not there ONLY for EGR control... it's part of the fuelling strategy that's what i was saying from the beginning nothing else
 
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sierrafery said:
I couldn't crop the whole page on that image i posted at page 4 and i highlighte just what i considered is relevant about the MAF, the whole text under the sensor's picture is as follows:
Identical MAFT sensors are attached to the air cleaner outlets, but only the MAFT sensor attached to the right air cleaner provides both MAF and temperature signals for the ECM. The engine harness connection with MAFT sensor of the left air cleaner is wired so that only the MAF signal is connected to the ECM.

"The MAF sensors work on the hot film principle. The MAF sensor output is a digital signal proportional to the mass of the incoming air. The ECM uses this data, in conjunction with signals from other sensors and information from stored fueling maps, to determine the precise fuel quantity to be injected into the cylinders. The signals are also used as a feedback for the EGR system.

The temperature sensor in the right MAFT sensor is a NTC (negative temperature coefficient) thermistor in a voltage divider circuit. Using the voltage output from the temperature sensor, the ECM can correct the fueling map for intake air temperature.

The MAFT sensors receive a 12V supply from the ECM relay in the EJB and a ground connection via the ECM. Separate connections to the ECMare provided for the two MAF signals and the temperature signal.

The ECM checks the calculated air mass against the engine speed. If the calculated air mass is not plausible, the ECM uses a default air mass figure which is derived from the average engine speed compared to a stored characteristic map. The air mass value will be corrected using values for charge air pressure, ambient air pressure and ambient air temperature."
.......................................................................................


the AIR MASS is calculated based on MAF readings... you are stuck in that "AIR FLOW through the MAF" thing which is not entirely correct as the MAF is used for AIR MASS(Kg/hr) caclulations, and even if the volume(amount) of air is steady in the cylinders the mass of it varies

so the MAF is not there ONLY for EGR control... it's part of the fuelling strategy that's what i was saying from the beginning nothing else
Click to expand...

So why did you post a reverse engineered MAP in which you claimed that fuel injected was directly linked to MAF air flow. As i recall you divided the air flow by five and the fuel injected by five and claimed that was the fuel quantity needed for that airflow. It was the fuel needed for that RPM but had nothing to do with the airflow readings from thew MAF. It is a given that airflow will increase as engine revs rise. But that has nothing to do with fuelling. The air temp is of importance for fine fuel adjustment. The flow through the MAF is not. There is always more air in the cylinder than the engine needs for clean combustion. And as said many times earlier if the MAF is faulty the ECU becomes confused. And will revert to a preset because expected signals are not being received. We were not talking a duff MAF we were talking with a good MAF and how the engine is fuelled. Fine adjustment due to air temp is a given. But you seemed to think the engine was fuelled subject to airflow through the MAF which it certainly is not. Engine RPM/power level request dictates fuelling not airflow through the MAF which i am sure was your contention before you realised it is not possible. Maybe it's time to call a truce on this matter.
 
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I said that the IQ is directly linked to the air mass which is calculated based on MAF input but never claimed that other sensors are not involved in the final result of the precise fuel quantity injected, and that's confirmed by the last paragraph of the text from that official document i quoted ...anyway a truce is good enough for me cos i'm sure it became a fact for everybody that we'll not fully agree whatsoever as long as i'm speaking about calculations made within an electronic processor with EEPROM which i think i know better and you are speaking about what's happening within the cylinders which i'm sure you know better.... truce it is then
surrender.gif
 
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Interceptorxj said:
Anyway ..about this EGR solenoid !
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can be removed or left in place the main objective is the blanking plate this will guarantee no inert gas leakage past the egr VALVE SEAT
for a full delete ....well this up to you .....the EGR solenoids can also be turned off by unplugging them electronically as well as vac lines ... if you decide remove them you will need to blank the T peice so you still have vac to your brake booster

its a persaonal preference how far one goes to delete an egr ..... but apparently you can also delete the MAF sensor as this wont be needed when you delete your EGR system
 
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