S

Shais01

New Member
Hello everyone,

I've got a 2004 Discovery 2 Td5, Automatic gearbox. 16p engine.
Around 125,000 miles on the clock. Full service history.
Oil changed every 6,000 miles.
Bought in 2010 with 30,000 miles on it, its the wife's car, very little off-road, a lot of short trips where the engine doesn't have a chance to warm up.

Used to consume a bit of oil, used to add 1/2 liter just before each service.
For the past 3 services it stopped, and the level even rises a bit.
Since I don't believe in miracles, I've searched the site and found that it might be the injectors washers & o rings or a cracked head :(

Washers & o rings replaced. One was slightly worn. No change, oil is still rising, very slowly.
Sent a sample to an oil lab. They estimate diesel in oil about 15% (after 6,000 miles).
The rise is such that after 6,000 miles the level will be about 5 millimeters higher than just after the service.

Didn't find any recent info, it seems as it was regarded a problem related to early Td5.
Is a head replacement the only next step?
Is it possible the injectors themselves are faulty?

Any advice will be appreciated!
 
I would redo the seals again. I did mine and id not done a good enough job the 1st time.
whilst the injectors are out you could examine the pockets for signs of damage and cracking.
Some people have had them welded up and had no problems
 
Were the o-rings genuine LR?...aftermarket stuff can be bad from the beginning, get a kit like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Dye-am...p-Fuel-Petrol-Diesel-Leaks-RLD4-/230754744531 put the dye in the tank then after few days of driving remove the injectors and check with the torch around the area where the o-rings are fitted, if you see traces above the o-ring's seat you found the leak... the copper washers have nothing to do with this, the fuel fom the supply can pass the area where the o-rings are cos the fuel pressure is higher than the oil pressure

Td5_Cylinder head_washers.jpg
 
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Whatever the cause don't do too many miles as you will wear the cam lobes very quickly. I know from experience. I nursed a 10p engine with a cracked head for two years until it eventually gave up the ghost. On inspection there was almost no wear apparent on the big ends but the injector cam lobes were blued and scored very badly. Mine eventually went bang when the oil pump drive sprocket bolt came loose.
 
Thanks everybody.
Replaced the o-rings and washers again.
Genuine LR.
Oil still rising, might be even faster than before, not sure.

So, cracked head it is?
Ever heard of a cracked head on a 16P engine?

Again, I’ll appreciate any advice.
 
Shais01 said:
Thanks everybody.
Replaced the o-rings and washers again.
Genuine LR.
Oil still rising, might be even faster than before, not sure.

So, cracked head it is?
Ever heard of a cracked head on a 16P engine?

Again, I’ll appreciate any advice.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that... 16p engines are identical to the 15p...they crack, not to common though..

You could buy a recon head or a new one
 
Did you feel the o-rings tightening well to the hole when you pushed back the injectors...not long ago a friend of mine had the strangest experience, fitted new genuine LR(in labeled bag) o-rings and they were thinner than the old ones, he said he suspected this cos the injectors dropped too easy back to theyr's place and the o-rings leaked from minute 1 , i had my 5 old injectors in the garage, removed the orings from them, he fitted those and it was good :confused:o_O
 
The o rings where fitted by my mechanic while I was standing next to him.
Bought from a reputable UK LR Parts dealer so I can hardly believe they are fake.

My guts tell me it isn’t the head.
But I might be wrong...
 
Shais01 said:
Bought from a reputable UK LR Parts dealer so I can hardly believe they are fake.
Click to expand...
It's not about being fake but about someones incompetence from LR who mixed up dimensions when the ''contract" was made IMO and usually the dealer is an intermediar not the manufacturer so he can't be blamed for what's in the package..... for me being already 3 kniown similar cases the whole thing is very suspect
 
Let’s assume your correct and the genuine o rings are faulty for some reason.
What would be the next step?

I’d feel like a complete fool to replace the head just to find out the diesel is still getting into the oil and the fault is something else...
 
It has to be something to do with the head or injector seals as there is nowhere else the engine oil and fuel can come into contact.
 
Take the top cover off and switch the ignition on. Do not start the engine or you'll have oil everywhere. Have a look around the injector pockets while the pump is running. If the O rings are leaking you will see fuel bubbling up.
 
sierrafery said:
Were the o-rings genuine LR?...aftermarket stuff can be bad from the beginning, get a kit like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Dye-am...p-Fuel-Petrol-Diesel-Leaks-RLD4-/230754744531 put the dye in the tank then after few days of driving remove the injectors and check with the torch around the area where the o-rings are fitted, if you see traces above the o-ring's seat you found the leak... the copper washers have nothing to do with this, the fuel fom the supply can pass the area where the o-rings are cos the fuel pressure is higher than the oil pressure

View attachment 125817
Click to expand...
Sierra. I am about to take my injectors out again as the fuel is still mixing with the oil. I have one question for you as I try to eliminate all possibilities before considering a cracked head and that question is, if the copper washers were not sealing properly and cylinder gasses were escaping up past the injector body, would those gasses be of a high enough pressure to force fuel past the o-ring and into the oil spaces?. My sump oil level is now rising at an alarming rate, about 50mm on the dipstick after approx. 400 miles. :(
 
landyboots said:
f the copper washers were not sealing properly and cylinder gasses were escaping up past the injector body, would those gasses be of a high enough pressure to force fuel past the o-ring and into the oil spaces?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure but i seriously doubt that cos if you watch that cross section you'll realise that if combustion gas escapes with high pressure through the washer the pressure will end up in the fuel rail creating back pressure which means missfire rather that fuel getting into the oil.... aamof missfire or hard starting is the common symptom of failed washers not else.... do what @shifty recommended cos it's a good test
 
sierrafery said:
I'm not sure but i seriously doubt that cos if you watch that cross section you'll realise that if combustion gas escapes with high pressure through the washer the pressure will end up in the fuel rail creating back pressure which means missfire rather that fuel getting into the oil.... aamof missfire or hard starting is the common symptom of failed washers not else.... do what @shifty recommended cos it's a good test
Click to expand...
Thanks sierra and my apologies for hijacking this thread. Last week when I removed and re-seated my injectors I did exactly what @shifty recommended and had a good look and listen at the injector areas while I had the pump purging and pressurising the rail. I seen no bubbles but could hear air but had no way of knowing if this was air escaping past a seal or just the normal purging process forcing air to wherever it goes. What you say about the copper washers not sealing makes sense. I have no starting or running problems. I may be in denial at this stage but I'm just not convinced that the head has cracked considering the easy unstressed life that this car has had. :(
 
landyboots said:
Thanks sierra and my apologies for hijacking this thread. Last week when I removed and re-seated my injectors I did exactly what @shifty recommended and had a good look and listen at the injector areas while I had the pump purging and pressurising the rail. I seen no bubbles but could hear air but had no way of knowing if this was air escaping past a seal or just the normal purging process forcing air to wherever it goes. What you say about the copper washers not sealing makes sense. I have no starting or running problems. I may be in denial at this stage but I'm just not convinced that the head has cracked considering the easy unstressed life that this car has had. :(
Click to expand...

What was the cause in the end ?
 
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