I have always wanted to own a defender but due to already having a company jeep and relative modest income I until now have just admired from afar! I am trying to justify myself buying one by telling myself it would be an investment! If I were to buy an absolutely mint 95/96, 90 CSW could I expect it to depreciate/appreciate in say 10-15 years. It would be only occasionally used and maintained to highest standards. Given production ending in 2015 and lack of original clean examples am i deluded in thinking it would hold its value!
bushwwacker
Well-Known Member
It won't be an investment... 
P.S. Nice introduction...
P.S. Nice introduction...
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You only live once, if you can afford one and maintain it correctly it will last you a lifetime, go get one, always wanted one too since leaving the forces, it's great and after the time and money I've put in I will be keeping it, so many around, parts will never run dry, they have such a following parts will always be available and even if they did, it's a defender, you can make the parts in your shed haha.
Money wise they hold their value well if looked after, especially on galvanised chassis etc, no matter what age if solid and have the right parts prices are high
Money wise they hold their value well if looked after, especially on galvanised chassis etc, no matter what age if solid and have the right parts prices are high
timtheenchanteruk
Well-Known Member
OK, yes it will hold its value, but not in an investment sense, as you will plow more money into it one way or another besides the original value.
Seeing as many S1 parts are still available off the shelf, Im not worried about parts availability.
Seeing as many S1 parts are still available off the shelf, Im not worried about parts availability.
timtheenchanteruk
Well-Known Member
PS, most landrover owners would prefer a good honest example to a minter.
I much prefer to see a well looked after, but used machine than a shiny shiny one, want shiny shiny, get a nice classic car to polish every weekend, nothing better than a workhorse being used for what it was made for.
I much prefer to see a well looked after, but used machine than a shiny shiny one, want shiny shiny, get a nice classic car to polish every weekend, nothing better than a workhorse being used for what it was made for.
cowasaki
Well-Known Member
Using cars as an investment is fraught with dangers. Yes it's true that had you bought an e-type 20 years ago you could have sold it 5 years ago for 10x what you paid and likewise in relative terms Landrover series/defenders have increased in value over the past few years but the problem is knowing what is or is not going to increase in value. Who knows what is round the corner? What happens if the government roll the stupidly high road tax backwards and we have to pay £1000 a year for a 1994 defender or a 1969 series? The bottom might fall out of the market overnight and just leave the enthusiasts to pick at the bones. Realistically the best you can hope for is not to be out of pocket but if you are using the vehicle then the costs of ownership are going to mean that you are likely going to be paying out more than the vehicle appreciates and so it's not a good investment.
discomania
Well-Known Member
This is a difficult one, and I can think of 3 things to consider.
If THINGS stay as they are it will appreciate, the day they stop making them, all Defenders in existence will become a past model which turns the tide and starts a reduction in Defender numbers worldwide (unless someone SOMEWHERE gets the chance to build it for another market - but even countries with the most relaxed safety and emissions laws will catch up with us and they will be no more). This means my Defender, your Defender, the guy down the road's Defender is now technically worth a little more as they are now of limited numbers. However, the issue is, we need to spend so much on them keeping them going, it might not actually work like that.
These aforementioned THINGS are our ability to run an old vehicle; slowly older vehicles are being pushed off the road as a daily driver and in some places even as a weekender. London is an example with its LEZ charge. By September 2014 Parisians will not be allowed to operate cars older than 17 years within the A68 motorway, which doesn't just circle the very centre. Just you wait till the EU decides that that was a jolly good plan and enforce it on every city in the EU!
Next, fuel. I have a daily driver and my 90. I did about 90 miles this morning which according to my MPG average I did on 7.87 litres of fuel at £1.35 a litre, so £10.63 in diesel, when 100mpg is the norm and it costs £2 a litre we will all be moaning, but actually, that would cost less than it did for me today, it would be £9.10. However, if I used my 90 and drive really carefully, it would cost me £29.25 at £2 a litre. I don't expect our salaries to increase enough that it would be on par with today's higher motoring costs for an older car.
MOT and TAX - I suspect they will change this all again sometime in the not too distant future, there were discussions about moving the VED exempt age but it may also come with mileage limitations - I read recently that some places in Europe you can only drive a classic 3000 miles a year. Well, after my rebuild my 1990 land rover is good for another 23 years anyway, but due to the higher build quality, galvanised parts and buckets of Dinitrol in it, I would hope it would last double that with care and attention - but will I be allowed to drive it in 46 years?
In conclusion I think that motoring with older vehicles is going to get more and more difficult unfortunately, what would it do to our Land Rover's if they announced that in 2018 all vehicles over 17 years old were going to be banned from cities, limited to 3000 miles a year, charged high VED for pollution? Well the bottom will fall right out of the market and we will be left with unusable vehicles, which were worth thousands, now worthless. It's not really worth thinking about because the whole prospect angers and disappoints me.
SteNova
Well-Known Member
I can only go off what I know..
in 1992 a nova gsi was £10,000
in 2002 you could get one for £100-£1000
in 2012 it would be £3000
in 2013 they are still rising, but there are only 53 or so left on the road
VAUXHALL NOVA GSI - How Many Left?
if you have a rare model expect it go to up eventually if its good
but as you can see some have a long way to go...
LAND ROVER DEFENDER 90 TD5 - How Many Left?
in 1992 a nova gsi was £10,000
in 2002 you could get one for £100-£1000
in 2012 it would be £3000
in 2013 they are still rising, but there are only 53 or so left on the road
VAUXHALL NOVA GSI - How Many Left?
if you have a rare model expect it go to up eventually if its good
but as you can see some have a long way to go...
LAND ROVER DEFENDER 90 TD5 - How Many Left?
zeaphod
Well-Known Member
I think something has been missed here - as well as the good points above. Many of the more modern defenders will go beyond economic repair because of the cost of repairing/replacing the ABS and engine management systems - which can easily run to thousands. I think many of them will be scrapped once they reach 15 years old or more because of this - I mean the ones not lovingly cared for by the like of us.
We're in the hayday of Defenders at the moment, with every version still one the road, but in 20 years time, they will be the preserve of enthusiasts - like the series vehicles.
We're in the hayday of Defenders at the moment, with every version still one the road, but in 20 years time, they will be the preserve of enthusiasts - like the series vehicles.
tacr2man
Well-Known Member
The older non electronic 90/110 and early defenders will be better at maintaining a decent value , as mentioned previously due to being able to be maintained in a roadworthy level relevant to their age , but a late model with abs and ecu and emission levels specified will be a lot more difficult proposition as that requires maintaining to that standard current at its time of registration . What price a dpf for a 90 in 20years , whereas a silencer for a 90 with a 200tdi will most likely still be relatively cheap and available. Ther are mercs of recent vintage that are virtually worthless due to cost of sensors
DaveM-sport
Active Member
You've upset me now too thinking about that lol.
I wouldn't have one single car that I could use if that was the case. My E30s would probably last longer and be in better condition than some newer BMWs and with my Touring having a modern diesel engine, it should be good for 70mpg plus. Then the Defender for work and to be honest... I wouldn't care about fuel in that by then as long as they didn't introduce all the other stupid rules.
As an investment, I really don't understand the concept with cars. For example, I'd love an E46 M3 CSL or E30 M3 Sport Evo. Good ones are now worth 30-100K. If I had the money for one or even a few years ago when they were at some sort of realistic prices, I would have bought one but not as an investment as I just can't see why you'd buy a car and not enjoy it by driving it which is the main point of buying a nice car.
As for Defender prices rising, I think values of very good ones or limited edition models might rise a little alright especially when they become 30 years old alllowing them into the US but there's just so many of them on the roads, it'll take forever for them to just become valuable just out of limited availability on their own.
Go back to the E30 M3 example. They are now around 20-25 years old. Only 600 Sport Evos were made at the time and were about 45K new.
Only upto 5-6 years ago, you could have bought a good Sport Evo for less than 10K and made little over other models.
in the last year or two, prices have shot upto around 30, 50 and even as far as 80-100K asking prices for ones with delivery mileage just because there are so few of them left now due to many being turned into rally or race cars over the years, others being crashed and probably a good number of them broken for parts due to being too rusty or re-shelled.
We are going to have to wait a hell of a long time before a Defender is rare enough for that to happen.
Defender90fan
New Member
I don't think you can go wrong with a defender. I bought a £2000 1987 90 from a dealer a few years ago and I have been offered more than that now. Parts are cheap and as long as it is maintained it will hold its value.
Thanks for all your thoughts guys.some excellent points both for and against plenty of considerations to take from them all. I suppose my original description as a investment was slightly misleading. I am not hoping for this to become my pension plan!rather just curious how prices are likely to go if my circumstances were to change in the future and I had to sell. But overall think i will take the positives out of them and 'invest'!
DaveM-sport
Active Member
Thanks for all your thoughts guys.some excellent points both for and against plenty of considerations to take from them all. I suppose my original description as a investment was slightly misleading. I am not hoping for this to become my pension plan!rather just curious how prices are likely to go if my circumstances were to change in the future and I had to sell. But overall think i will take the positives out of them and 'invest'!
Ahh... Think I took you up on it wrong by coming across as a "collector" rather than a guy that doesn't want to loose his shirt on a car
As far as a vehicle goes that you want to use and not see it's value drop to nothing, its a great choice once you get one at the right price and condition.
It was probably the main reason why I bought one. Could have got a Pajero, Patrol, Landcruiser, Pathfinder or any of those yokes or even a nice Discovery 2 but all of them would age over the years and drop in value to the point they would be worthless.
Whereas a Defender has a kind of timeless look (due to it's styling but more than likely just because it wasn't allowed to age due to it never changing
)I tend to hand onto cars I like anyway so wanted something that would still look good in 10-20 years time or for however long I keep it. Probably wouldn't sell it but its nice to know, it'll always be worth something at least if I had to as I think Defenders pre transit engine have kinda reached there rock bottom in values now so will either stay there or the will increase a little bit for good ones.
