Right decision time has come with the freelander

As you may or maynot know i've been having fueling issues with the FL ( '03 TD4 Kali')

Some days it runs sweet as a nut, other days it kangaroos all the way to work and back depending on which side of the bed it fell out of that morning

Codes have been read with a hawkeye and have come up with the following

P0190 Fuel pressure sensor out of range
P09F6 Fuel pressure monitoring whilst starting
P09F6 NO TEXT ALLOCATED TO THIS CODE ( But the local garages code reader this code showed up as reading "rail pressure control during cranking")

Issue I now have is over the weekend Ive bought a tdi VW golf to use as a mile muncher to get me to work and i've sorned the FL as on last friday night it had become almost undriveable as it had one of its intermittent hissy fits

Have looked at fixing it and insuring the FL on its own and keeping it as a toy for green laning but even for tp insurance it's still £320 for the year and space is at a premium so its not a really an option

so the decision has to be made

Tbh interest is waning in the freelander to the point where i've not fitted the fuel pressure regulator repair kit i bought some weeks ago and i've not run it since last friday when it spat its dummy out about 300 yards from leaving work, so do i?

1) Flog it as it is for spares or repairs ( which it isnt really as its just got 12 months MOT)

2) Man up and fit the regulator repair kit and see what happens then sell it if it runs ok

3) buy the fuel pressure sensor and new wiring harness and fit that (£154 extra which i could do without paying tbh ) as well as the regulator repair kit and see what happenings then flog it if it runs ok for what's its actually worth

So i put the dilemma to the forum

Any other ideas welcome

Thanks

Phil

When it fails to start does the engine turn over?
fit the kit yer bought

+1 at least fit the parts you have bought - if it runs then the sale value goes up

if the new parts dont work come back and ask what to do

To me it sounds like the classic fuel rail sensor/ wiring fault. LR made an overlay harness and replacement sensor, which sorted this issue out.
The pressure regulator will only fix a non start. If it's messing about once it's started, it's likely to be the sensor/ harness. The codes you are getting would support this too

I agree with Nodge.
However, it is a real issue as to what you decide to do.
The price of freelanders is ridiculously cheap in the uk - or more precisely - resale value. The vehicles are old now in realistic terms. The UK metal worm has set in - in a lot of cases.. the problems with age and lack of upkeep as they get older - not by you Phil - but by possibly MANY po's adds to the issues.
It all boils down to what you want to do with it in the context of keeping or selling it - and even then, what the realistic price is in a sale.
Advertising it with an issue (NOT for spares!) is ok - you have the codes - it may well fetch a good price due to someone perceiving a bargain due to those codes.
I have no idea what you paid, what time you have in it, what hassle it is keeping it, what you are prepared to accept etc etc.
But, selling it with a know diagnostic code is far far better than selling it as a vehicle with unknown issues.
The rust worms in the uk - including the electrical corrosion bacteria are a matter of huge problems for older examples.
I suppose it boils down to how much you want to keep the vehicle and how much you enjoy driving and using it, and also the whole overall attraction in the first place.
I want to keep mine for probably the next 20 years - seriously - luckily we do not have the issues with rust or electrical corrosion worm / bacteria here.
Hence I can spend FAR more on the vehicles than the potential re-sale value would reflect - even though - the resale value here is Massively greater than the UK (providing it is a 'national' car - ie - always been in Portugal)

Hard choice mate and not an easy answer really.

Hippo said:

When it fails to start does the engine turn over?
fit the kit yer bought

Click to expand...

hasnt failed to start since about mid september and thats been the only time its failed to start

rest of the time its just been a bit slow or it fires straight away

digby said:

+1 at least fit the parts you have bought - if it runs then the sale value goes up
if the new parts dont work come back and ask what to do

Click to expand...

It's Currently running had the fl running for a good 40 mins last night after cleaning the contacts on the high pressure sensor and wiping out the egr valve, started fine and ran well

Nodge68 said:

To me it sounds like the classic fuel rail sensor/ wiring fault. LR made an overlay harness and replacement sensor, which sorted this issue out.
The pressure regulator will only fix a non start. If it's messing about once it's started, it's likely to be the sensor/ harness. The codes you are getting would support this too

Click to expand...

As above it started find last night and it did last friday too it was only after driving a few miles that it miss behaved and kangarooed me all the way home so suspect your right in what it will be but its an extra £154, but if i do spend that on it will i get my money back

Joe_H said:

I agree with Nodge.
However, it is a real issue as to what you decide to do.
The price of freelanders is ridiculously cheap in the uk - or more precisely - resale value. The vehicles are old now in realistic terms. The UK metal worm has set in - in a lot of cases.. the problems with age and lack of upkeep as they get older - not by you Phil - but by possibly MANY po's adds to the issues.
It all boils down to what you want to do with it in the context of keeping or selling it - and even then, what the realistic price is in a sale.
Advertising it with an issue (NOT for spares!) is ok - you have the codes - it may well fetch a good price due to someone perceiving a bargain due to those codes.
I have no idea what you paid, what time you have in it, what hassle it is keeping it, what you are prepared to accept etc etc.
But, selling it with a know diagnostic code is far far better than selling it as a vehicle with unknown issues.
The rust worms in the uk - including the electrical corrosion bacteria are a matter of huge problems for older examples.
I suppose it boils down to how much you want to keep the vehicle and how much you enjoy driving and using it, and also the whole overall attraction in the first place.
I want to keep mine for probably the next 20 years - seriously - luckily we do not have the issues with rust or electrical corrosion worm / bacteria here.
Hence I can spend FAR more on the vehicles than the potential re-sale value would reflect - even though - the resale value here is Massively greater than the UK (providing it is a 'national' car - ie - always been in Portugal)

Hard choice mate and not an easy answer really.

Click to expand...

Therein lies the dilemma

Had it since aug and its had new vcu and bearing from bell's, rear diff mounts, air, turbo, and crankcase filters ( pollen filter yet to be fitted and not got round to doing oils and filter yet ) full waxoil underneath to stop any rot ( there isnt but it is a land rover) and put 12 months mot on it

Keeping it isnt really an option for space and money reasons and if i'm honest interest has waned a bit with it but i would like some of mony back (in that i don't want to give it away at scrap/spares values ) but at end of day only paid £1350 for it

Decision made..
its for sale!!

But there's nothing worse than something not running right !

poor Freelander

freelance said:

But there's nothing worse than something not running right !

Click to expand...

I know its a pain in the arse

Hippo said:

poor Freelander

Click to expand...

Hey im the poor one which is why it hasn't been fixed yet!

well a bit of good news the swmbo has just txt me, shes got fed up of me moaning about the landy being broke so shes bought me the bits !!

Quality

My Mrs & daughter have gone off to Melbourne for the weekend..... Left me alone to go out exploring and fishing in the Freelander.....

Unfortunately not! These arrived in the post today, so I'll be fixing the windows in the Starlet....



...as well as the list of other things to do !!

GrumpyGel said:

Quality

My Mrs & daughter have gone off to Melbourne for the weekend..... Left me alone to go out exploring and fishing in the Freelander.....

Unfortunately not! These arrived in the post today, so I'll be fixing the windows in the Starlet....

View attachment 109711

...as well as the list of other things to do !!

Click to expand...

Will still be selling it though when it's sorted just don't have the room for 3 cars at our house

Nah go fishing

Right had enough of this thing now

New rail pressure sensor wiring overlay harness fitted over the and plumbed into the ECU in the correct ports in the wiring loom.

New sensor fitted to the rail ( had to take the bloody inlet manifold off to get me spanner on it )

Absolute pig to start afterwards took best part of an hour and a jump start and a bit of gt90 sprayed down the inlet ( tried charging it but seems me charger didnt want to work either ) to start it noticed it had put the EML light on again but it ran and revved ok so left it there idling to boost the battery again and self bleed itself for the best part of an hour while i messed about in garage

Switched it off after that and tried to re start it and would it re start? would it be buggered!

Annoying this is it started and ran ok before i touched anything that morning when i moved it into a better position!!

only thing left it to try is to fit the fuel regulator seals on back of pump ( didn't have tools yesterday else id of done it whilst manifold was off as you can see it from above

And to top it off i've lost yest another 10mm socket thats slipped down the front of the rad into oblivion, thats the second one this foking thing has cost me

Latest code read with hawkeye:

P0190 - Fuel pressure sensor. Signal out of range
P09F6 - Fuel pressure monitoring whilst starting.
P09F6 - No text allocated to this code
P0605 - ECU controller. Redundant overrun monitoring
P1E00 - can Bus. No text allocated for this code
P0100 - Air flow meter. Air mass flow to low

All codes clear and when checked again have gone. This was all done with the engine running on tickover.

General live data for the Td4 looked like this with engine oft, having just run for a few minutes (after struggling to start it as the battery was flat so it needed a jump):

Regulator current = 0.055A
High pressure rail = 8188.3kpa
Manifold pressure = 98.3kpa
Inlet air temp = 14.6 degrees C
Battery voltage = 11.975 volts
Capacitor 1 = 0.885 volts
Coolant temp = 40.6 degrees C
Air flow = 3276.7 mg/strk
Engine speed = 0 rpm
Low press rail = 97.0 kpa
Sensor supply 1 = 5.011 volts
Sensor supply 2 = 5.011 volts
Brake light sw = off
Brake light test sw = off
Clutch pedal sw = depressed
Pedal 1 demand = 0.0%
Pedal 2 demand = 0.0%
Pedal 1 demand = 0.723 volts
Pedal 2 demand = 0.362 volts
Vehicle speed = 0 km/h

These results can be compared to this ere video of a different Td4 with engine oft and cold (well it's nearly the same) (click play then click the you tube logo for it to open a new window to play propper):

Freelander 1 Td4 HawkEye v7 Diagnostic. Engine Computer Live Data. Engine Off and Cold

Or this one of a Td4 with engine warm and oft:

Freelander 1 Td4 HawkEye v7 Diagnostic. Engine Computer Live Data. Engine Off and Warm

Later on we got the following error code:

P1DF5 - immobilisation (EWS). Tamper trial

We think this may be due to having to try to start it several times to get it going again, with the help of a jump start. Many attempts at starting can upset the immobiliser. Also turning the key many times can do the same.

We couldn't get into the immobiliser to see if it had error codes. Couldn't talk with it with the Hawkeye for some reason. I've managed it before with other Td4's. Immobiliser must be working as it started. No codes were found after it run for a bit.

General live data for the Td4 looked like this with engine running and just starting to warm up at 54 degrees coolant:

Regulator current = 0.534A
High pressure rail = 30706.2kpa
Manifold pressure = 97.3kpa
Inlet air temp = 12 degrees C
Battery voltage = 13.7 jumping to/from 13.9 volts continuously
Capacitor 1 = 79.243 volts
Coolant temp = 54.9 degrees C
Air flow = 372.5 mg/strk
Engine speed = 850 rpm
Low press rail = 350.8 kpa
Sensor supply 1 = 5.011 volts
Sensor supply 2 = 5.011 volts
Brake light sw = off
Brake light test sw = off
Clutch pedal sw = depressed
Pedal 1 demand = 0.0%
Pedal 2 demand = 0.0%
Pedal 1 demand = 0.723 volts
Pedal 2 demand = 0.362 volts
Vehicle speed = 0 km/h

Battery reads 14.2 volts constant at the battery terminals when charging oft it's own alternator.
Freelander has done 500 miles since the last code read in the first post on this ere fred.
Interesting to see some of the figures are different to the comparison Td4. Also the clutch is said to be depressed, when it int.

Cig lighter socket measured 11.9 volts. This to me signals a voltage drop in the electrics. When I've had this in the past it's been the electrical switch on the rear of the ignition, which had worn/burnt electrical connections, which caused the volt drop. That was on an auto but I assume manuals have the same rear switch on the ignition. The previous time to this my ignition switch failed on the other set of contacts which caused the reverse lights, brake lights and wipers to intermittently work when the engine was running.

Anyone else got any idea's?

Another comparison with a Td4 engine warm on tickover:

Freelander 1 Td4 HawkEye V5 Diagnostic. Engine Computer Live Data. Engine Warm on Tickover

Put a bullet into it when it's a sleep.

Just an update on this


Put the battery on change all afternoon and still wont start the car so suspect thats goosed too

Built up the courage to strip it down enough to fit the regulator kit last night so

intake off
manifold off
moved as many pipes and wires out of the way from the pump and starter motor

Put 30 torx on the first bolt of the regulator and cracked the bolt off, brilliant i thought!......

Put torx in the second bolt to find it's just spinning

Using me little mirror on a stick it turns out some little "see you next tuesday" has been down this far before and completely rounded off the inside of the torx bolt!!!

So without either replacing the fuel pump or taking it off to get the bolt in a vice to undo it i can't see many other options

So it been put back together

decision made

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/2003-53-freelander-td4-kalahari-needs-some-tlc.306912/

Last night ( with a jump start ) it ran without issue no faults came up and even went for a 3 mile drive to clear its lungs a bit ( private road officer ) and it behaved itself

Needs a new battery but some else can sort that

This TD4 has given you the right runaround. Not to mention the cost of parts fitted.
It really does sound like the HPFR sensor/hearness, only you've changed that.
Hopefully selling it will ease some of the pain.
What a pita it's been.

Nodge68 said:

This TD4 has given you the right runaround. Not to mention the cost of parts fitted.
It really does sound like the HPFR sensor/hearness, only you've changed that.
Hopefully selling it will ease some of the pain.
What a pita it's been.

Click to expand...

this is joint top with a mg zs180 for worst car reliability i've ever had and that threw its rod through the block!

this has had :
a new vcu and bearings £320
Full service kit bar oil filter £35
new sensor & Loom £154 ( mrs paid for that though)
3 new rear diff mounts £10 ( seller cocked up and sent all three for the price of 1 )
Fuel regulator seals £9 ( never fitted due to rounded bolts by previous moron)
3 tines of wax oil £26.97

So I'm down £554 in parts since i've bought in august alone, it's and has caused arguments between me and mrs so it's time to bid it farewell and fook off!

Good news is had a gent come out to view it last night and with a jump start it ran well and he offered me £1000 for it so metaphorically snapped his hand off

he's bringing a new battery for it with him when he collects it, i did tell i think the battery tray bolt has spinning but said he's got tools for that so not too worried

so really i'm down £900 ish in total from parts and the original purchase price but as its fought me every step im hopefully be glad to see the back of it


Else I'll be keeping his £100 deposit!!