sp00k

sp00k

Well-Known Member
I've been concerned about my clutch for a while. The bite point has felt as though it's been right at the top of the pedal, just before you remove your foot.

Today, for the first time I felt a judder as I drove up hill this morning, as if I was slipping the clutch (which I was not) then a few minutes later when I went to change gear, the pedal went straight to the floor without any resistance and I was unable to get a gear - the poitn were it failed was when I was in the middle of a gear change so I was still in neutral.

To tried rev matching but I could not get the gear lever to move, so I killed the engine. I was then able to engage a gear and restart to get home (all the way in 2nd).

I've already got a spare clutch kit and HD fork in the garage. What's the best way to diagnose the problem? I'm wondering if I need a new cluch slave or master or even both or will it just be the fork that's gone.
 
If the master seals go, there is frequently a leak down the clutch pedal - have a close look. If the slave seal goes, it usually leaks into the bellhousing, and then out of the drain - where the wading plug goes. I'd have a good look around while someone else pumps the pedal. Of course, if the clutch fluid level has dropped, its definitely a leak. If not, have a good look at the flexi hose. they can fail internally, and allow "ballooning" which effectively stops the fluid pressure getting to the slave.
 
Sounds very similar to what happened to me about 5 years ago. Fork had snapped. Can't remember any slipping symptoms though.
 
I don't normally have the drain plugs in, but I do at the moment - they have been in a couple of weeks since I was last wading, so if any of the clutch fluid has leaked, it should still be in the bell housing - I guess that could have contaminated the clutch plate but it's got to be more than that as the pedal feels like it has no resistance at all. I'll check when I get home.

Any internal leak would have been hard to see as I had a proper full shower inside this morning when I set off.
 
I should have said the pedal does return to the normal position, but there is no resistance other than the spring.
 
sp00k said:
I should have said the pedal does return to the normal position, but there is no resistance other than the spring.
Click to expand...

Ah, if I remember correctly, I think my clutch pedal dropped to the floor and stayed there.
 
Sorry, accidently hit enter, again. Yea, i don't think it is the clutch i would think it's the slave or master cylinder, also check for leaks on pipes and stuff like that, you should find the issue :)
 
Skills guys, it is hydraulic so it will be less work than I thought.

There was literally no fluid visible in the res, so I have refilled in the hopes that the leak will be obvious.

When I refilled the fluid that came to the top was black, so I guess that is the seals breaking down.

Is it best to replace the master and slave as a pair? What makes are best? Or is it better to rebuild.

Thanks.
 
It's the slave. Just removed the wading plug and was greeted with a small puddle of filthy clutch fluid. Hopefully not enough to contaminate the clutch plate.
 
I did the slave only, then 12 months later the master went, i should have done it all at the same time to be honest for the additional cost it wasnt worth the arse ache of bleeding it up twice.

if ones going then if they were done at the same time its reasonable to think the other wont be far behind IMO
 
DiscoPol said:
I did the slave only, then 12 months later the master went, i should have done it all at the same time to be honest for the additional cost it wasnt worth the arse ache of bleeding it up twice.

if ones going then if they were done at the same time its reasonable to think the other wont be far behind IMO
Click to expand...

As Al Murray would say, "that's common British sense".
 
Hmm. I think I may have a bigger problem. I got the master cylinder out no problem, the pipe union nut was a swine, but it came away in the end.

The slave was a whole different story. Access is a real problem with mine being a disco engine. The pipe union nut at this end seems to be impossible. There is no way I can get a flare spanner in with the limited access. In the end I removed the slave bolts (which was also a challenge) hoping to be able to loosen the bolt once I could move the slave around. I could not make that work either so I'm going to try to drop the slave with the whole pipe attached so I can have a go at it in a vice - that should work :)

I think there might be a problem with the clutch fork. When I removed the slave, the slave rod was visible a few mm inside the bell housing (I think it's supposed to stick out a bit ?). At some point during my frantic struggle with the union, I must have knocked the rod and it seems to have disappeared, I can't feel it anywhere around the slave hole and it's not fallen out so I can only assume that it's pushed through an existing hole in the fork :eek:

I think that would also explain the sudden and massive leak in the slave if the rod has blown out. I'm thinking this is oging to be a hearbox or engine out job. Thoughts?
 
sp00k said:
Hmm. I think I may have a bigger problem. I got the master cylinder out no problem, the pipe union nut was a swine, but it came away in the end.

The slave was a whole different story. Access is a real problem with mine being a disco engine. The pipe union nut at this end seems to be impossible. There is no way I can get a flare spanner in with the limited access. In the end I removed the slave bolts (which was also a challenge) hoping to be able to loosen the bolt once I could move the slave around. I could not make that work either so I'm going to try to drop the slave with the whole pipe attached so I can have a go at it in a vice - that should work :)

I think there might be a problem with the clutch fork. When I removed the slave, the slave rod was visible a few mm inside the bell housing (I think it's supposed to stick out a bit ?). At some point during my frantic struggle with the union, I must have knocked the rod and it seems to have disappeared, I can't feel it anywhere around the slave hole and it's not fallen out so I can only assume that it's pushed through an existing hole in the fork :eek:

I think that would also explain the sudden and massive leak in the slave if the rod has blown out. I'm thinking this is oging to be a hearbox or engine out job. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

can you lift the pedal back up with your foot?
 
Before I did anything, the pedal returned to the normal position when you took your foot of it, it was very soft with no resistance at all. The pedal box is laying on the floor at the moment ready to paint whilst I wait for parts.
 
sp00k said:
Before I did anything, the pedal returned to the normal position when you took your foot of it, it was very soft with no resistance at all. The pedal box is laying on the floor at the moment ready to paint whilst I wait for parts.
Click to expand...

normally when the fork punches through pedal goes down and stays down
 
There was no fluid at all in the system at all, so I don't see how the pedal would stay down in that situation, as nothing to keep it here?
 
I had exactly the same problems as you when I did mine a year or two ago. Couldn't get the pipe off, so took the slave off with the pipe on. Anyway, as you pull the slave off the clutch housing it can pull on the push rod. The push rod is held on to the bottom of the fork by a small clip. It's like a ball and socket joint with the clip being the socket and the ball on the end of the push rod.
I think your push rod has fallen out of the clip and dropped inside the housing. Get your fingers in there or a hook made of wire or something to see if you can hook it out. Once out, hold it by the end and gently push it back in to the centre of the hole in the housing looking for the 'socket' hole in the clip. It will gently click in once you get it in the right place. Does all that make sense? ;)

Hmmm, just read your post again. It might have pushed through. Worth trying to find it in there though, just in case it has just dropped out, and try clicking it back in to place.
 
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