Let me just answer this one - (and if your handle is ;gstuart; htf do we end up with gary ??cheers , it's gary , but don't worry been called worse, lol
fitted a synergy box around 4 years ago , is a very interesting idea of urs and wished I had known earlier
did find the owner , Ron , to be really honest in what it would and wouldn't do
if u had any problems he was just a phone call away , personally found the Ron box got rid of flat spots and made the landy go like a steam train , also improving the mpg , handy having the dashboard switch , to change it from power if u wished to tow etc, or economy for better mpg
know there are many on the market and agree some sales are claiming all sorts of thing
appreciated the write up, my brain hurts now
Let me just answer this one - (and if your handle is ;gstuart; htf do we end up with gary ??
But . that is another story... so let me set the record straight for once,
Ron, as in RONBOX - is a superb bloke, he has done excellent work and his products are great ! no question there. He is an ACE guy. - He produces simple electronic designs with built in connectors fro the plug and pray brigade. Also, you pay A HUGE HUGE - ENORMOUS premium for such.. a few pence or quids worth of stuff in a nice Christmas present with ribbons on... that is about it....
Question though >? can we get similar results for a few quid - ?? - answer - yes !!!!!!!!!!- absolutely .//////
That is all she wrote really
The decision is up to you.......
It will have 1 microprocessor (probably a 'pic') and a couple of buffers (probably op amps).
I took mine apart too. I should have taken a photograph, but didn't. It looks like it has a couple of Op Amps and maybe a PIC. There are some passive components and then the cable connections and switch connections.
Exactly Nodge, all these boxes do the same - some slightly more sophisticated than others. By increasing the maf signal with the box attached (which is exactly what my little circuit does) it is tricking the ecu into thinking it has more air mass entering via the MAF hence the ecu increases it's fuel strategy to follow the changes.. By artificially lowering the fuel pressure signal signal to the ecu it would cause the ecu to increase the fuel pressure - however, as you have noted it appears to RAISE it slightly. This is quite interesting and I am still pondering the results
. I also recall the 1 second pulsing on idle from your measurements on the CTS problem thread and I raised my eyebrows at that one too. The idle reading / pulsing may be a code anomaly, or a reasonably clever calibration routine IF the rpm is going to be calculated from minor HP sensor variations on injector opening. I would love to see a digital storage scope trace if you have the time (I think you said you had a scope ?)
Hi Rob,A good debate!
I would agree completely.
The tuning "boxes" do what they do: alter sensor readings so that the ECU alters fuelling and ignition maps, and probably the turbo pressure too, for the conditions that it "sees". On a turbo engine, you'll get improvements in performance that you won't see on a N/A engine. I guess that 9 times out of 10, these tuning boxes will do what you bought the thing to do in the first place, and will be happy. Most of our cars only need to pass the visible smoke test anyway - so everyone is happy.
I am sure that Joe is right: if you are happy to build your own circuits, you could probably achieve much the same results for a few quid. The RoverRon kit is great because it is plug and play, easy to install and doesn't involve any parts identification, sourcing & buying/ fabrication/ soldering etc.
The re-map option is doing something similar, in that the fuel, ignition and pressure maps are altered, but being set up on a rolling road means that everything is optimised for the best power/torque for the least amount of fuel expended. You can imagine that the development time is rather more protracted - and hence this is often reflected in the cost.
Which is best? As a fan of rolling road testing products, I completely favour this: there is no comparative data on the various options. Which offers the best ft.lb/£? I reckon it'll be a tuning box of some description. What offers the best power/torque/MPG? A re-map.
Currently, you pay your money and make your choice.
Exactly Nodge, all these boxes do the same - some slightly more sophisticated than others. By increasing the maf signal with the box attached (which is exactly what my little circuit does) it is tricking the ecu into thinking it has more air mass entering via the MAF hence the ecu increases it's fuel strategy to follow the changes.. By artificially lowering the fuel pressure signal signal to the ecu it would cause the ecu to increase the fuel pressure - however, as you have noted it appears to RAISE it slightly. This is quite interesting and I am still pondering the results
The actual effective RAISING of fuel pressure signal to the ecu is surprising and would result in the pressure modulator winding down the HP pressure by increasing tank return, and also an increase in injector duration. speculation mode on - It could be something to do with spray patterns with shorter duration at higher HP pressure fighting against the longer duration / greater HP commanded by the MAF increase - or to look at it another way - the - if the desired result is longer injector duration then this would be an appropriate strategy.
If you ever get chance nodge can you check those results again - I am sure you are correct but a second look would be good. Also, I am not familiar with the 930, is it showing HPS voltage or calculated HPS pressure ?
It is a very informative result and one I find quite fascinating, yet it some ways - semi logical - the ecu is far more intelligent than the fudge boxes and to get the very best there may well have to be some double trickery going on.
I also presume the MAP sensor (if connected ?) remains the same as I am 'presuming' it is used only as an idle / over run sense.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Excellent Nodge, and agree 100%. As for another test when convenient - that would be great. I can sort of understand the readings at idle (but it doesnt quite add up) - it may be a 930 issue - it may a a code anomaly in the fudger, or it may be absolutely correct and a method of cal. I would have thought the ecu wuold have thrown a 'non plausible' code though if the pressure went to 0
? - it sort of registers in my head 'visually' - a bit like Ltrs per 100 Km as opposed to MPG - I am JUST after 10 years - getting used to Ltrs/100Km// it now means something tangible. metric and imperial - I don;t want to go there lol I just tent to use either and mix and match as both work for me.
I'm guessing that the I930 is simply displaying the figures that the ECU is broadcasting on the bus. The figure is in KPa which which is the most likely denominator for it to use. The I930 doesn't have the facility to read the actual sensor. I wouldn't even think that is output by the ECU.Excellent Nodge, and agree 100%. As for another test when convenient - that would be great. I can sort of understand the readings at idle (but it doesnt quite add up) - it may be a 930 issue - it may a a code anomaly in the fudger, or it may be absolutely correct and a method of cal. I would have thought the ecu wuold have thrown a 'non plausible' code though if the pressure went to 0
On running, I really WOULD have expected the box to show a slight DECREASE in pressure when on, to trick the ecu to increase the pressure above normal. This is one area where it is really uncertain and contrary to all normal ideology - however unlikely, it may be a chicken and egg situation as to what the 930 is actually reading - Can it read raw data (voltage input) from the sensor ?
Edit - hmm, if the output was a couple of thousand KPa then that is up to 20 Bar. difference
However - we are looking at figures of 200 Bar crank, 300 bar idle and 1300 Bar at max operating conditions. So, I suppose a figure of 20 bar may be a measurement anomaly also.
As you say, it is extremely difficult to compare. I would personally bet my bottom (euro) dollar on the pressure sense input to the ecu being lowered - hence the ECU increasing actual HP pressure. (sorry for my mental conversion of 100 KPa to Bar - I am just more comfortable with Bar from diving
As always Nodge mate - very very much appreciated..
Do you have scope btw ?
Cheers
Joe
Interesting... can you confirm if the RB has a tap from the MAP sensor ?
Ah, thats ok, I can see that working - I suspect the rpm sensing is a simple HP FP sensor signal pulse detection on injector opening.
- old age and poverty haha - this was played when we were baffled....
Nice one Nodge, that is more info than rave.
PM inboundNice one Nodge, that is more info than rave.
Can you upload the complete data-set (the who manual) to Gdrive or similar and send me a link please ?
Joe
