Discodevon
Well-Known Member
Yes I am, the better stuff not the proper crappy stuff
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
I don’t know the engines in the d3/4 but being they have so much power, somethings bound to fail over time
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The D4 does have a lot of power, but the D3 version is making a conservative 190 Bhp. A well designed diesel engine of 2.7 or 3 litres shouldn't suffer catastrophic crank or bearing failure at 80 to 120K miles, regardless of the power it's making.
Any bottom reliability issues were sorted out on the internal combustion engine before the 1940s, so going back to the days of 25K engine rebuilds seems a backwards step to me.
However the TDV6 isn't alone, suffering crank failure. The BMW M47R fitted to the Freelander TD4 has suffered a few crank failures, although I suspect that is just bad manufacturing, as those are braking on the front web. Sometimes the engine continues to run for hundreds of miles before the increasing knocking noise forces the owner to investigate what's up.
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Hi mate
Saw this , ref TLO notice
TOPIX article
Reference SSM71816
Models
Discovery 4 / L319
Discovery 3 / L319
Range Rover / L405
Range Rover Sport / L494
Range Rover Sport / L320
Title Crankshaft/Crankshaft Bearing Concerns - TDv6 Diesel Engine
Category Engine
Last modified 06-May-2014 00:00:00
Symptom 499000 Basic Engine
Content
Issue:
Crankshaft/crankshaft bearing failure - TDv6 Diesel Engine.
Cause:
Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use. A new procedure has been implemented to ensure:
- more rapid resolution of customer concerns, and
- greater visibility of failure modes in order to improve repair process and parts delivery.
Action:
For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Supportor FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure.
The list below summarises typical symptoms of crankshaft/bearing failure, but please contact your DTS/FRED team if in any doubt as they will be pleased to offer assistance:
· Crankshaft is seized, engine cannot be turned either via starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt.
· Oil sump or engine cylinder block is holed, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris found on engine under-tray.
· Engine makes a loud a rumbling/knocking sound when running which worsens as the engine is placed under load. The engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds.
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Didn’t realise they fitted the engine in so many models, alas know each manufacturer have made there own modifications,
I.E, believe Land Rover fit deeper engine oil pan sumps for off roading
Jaguar S Type
Jaguar XJ
Jaguar XF
Discovery III
Range Rover Sport
Peugeot 607
Peogeut 407 Coupe
Peugeot 407
Citroen C5
Citroen C6
Also this article from a South Africa publication
https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-rover/unease-grows-over-land-rover-engine-1925479
Quote
Changes have been made at a production level and all new engines manufactured since 2012 use a new bearing design. Dealers have been briefed on the procedure for any engine that experiences this issue.
“While it’s not possible to establish whether an engine is susceptible, the cause was identified – as detailed in the TOPIx report.”
I.E, believe Land Rover fit deeper engine oil pan sumps for off roading
Jaguar S Type
Jaguar XJ
Jaguar XF
Discovery III
Range Rover Sport
Peugeot 607
Peogeut 407 Coupe
Peugeot 407
Citroen C5
Citroen C6
Also this article from a South Africa publication
https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-rover/unease-grows-over-land-rover-engine-1925479
Quote
Changes have been made at a production level and all new engines manufactured since 2012 use a new bearing design. Dealers have been briefed on the procedure for any engine that experiences this issue.
“While it’s not possible to establish whether an engine is susceptible, the cause was identified – as detailed in the TOPIx report.”
Bobdog
Well-Known Member
that seems like an admission of guilt from Land Rover. does that mean they will pick up the tab when your engine blows up?
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
It's also fitted to the Australian Ford Territory.
Crank or bearing failure has been reported in some of the other vehicles using the engine, although in much lower numbers than the D3/4.
I suspect that the weight of the D3/4 is overloading the bearings more of the time than in the lighter vehicles that use it.
It obviously shows that they're aware of the issue.
Once it's out of warranty, they don't have to do anything to rectify the problem, leaving owner's with and expensive repair or scrap the vehicle.
From what I’ve heard from other members where the crankshaft has snapped JLR will pay a 20% contribution , however they have to fit the engine at there labour rates , so there goes a good 6k plus they remove the body , but can be done without removing the body
A 2.7 TDV6 engine are 5k , just going on figures what others have paid
However many are buying a running Jag S type so can hear and test the engine , using the engine then selling the parts off the Jag and finally getting scrap value for the body
Has been reported even MY16 D4s have had snapped cranks
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The engine can come out through the front as the whole front just bolts into place, same as the RR L322.
The same can be done with the Peugeot 407/607 or Citroen C5/6, as those aren't particularly expensive vehicles second hand.
Hi mate
I wasn’t 100% ref the front and how much came off , plus bet it’s one hell of a challenge lifting the engine out, think someone mentioned it weighs in excess of 230kg, which if thats right just think that’s just under 1/4 ton , gulp
Would be one hell of an engine hoist to lift it out, assume people remove the transfer and gearbox before lifting the engine , or does enough come off the front to take the whole lot out straight forward in one hit
Imagine u would have to strip all the ancillaries and looms off and swap them over, Inc the deeper D3 sump
Dam site cheaper than 5k in what many are asking for a rebuilt D3 engine
Plus moved on abit further today with the parasitic battery drain , it’s the drivers seat memory module, I retrofitted electric seats and had to bypass the module but is used like a wiring centre
If that’s 100% at fault will pull the fuse and then buy an 8 x way seat switch pack and seat loom and do away with the memory module completely
Managed to get myself a D4 steering wheel which I’ll fit later , see I’ve got to get some modified pcbs that replace the original ones in the switches to allow the D4 wheel to talk to the D3 system , all good fun
So in theory will end up like the second / third pic
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jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
just under by 20kg
just under by 20kg
Ah bloody raspberries
Indeed , 250 kg is 1/4 ton , have even corrected it so u don’t moan at me
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The whole front unbolts, so leaving a huge hole between the wings to pull the engine through.
It's probably 230Kgs dressed weight, which includes all ancillarys. You could likely loose 50Kgs by removing all ancillarys before stripping the engine out.
1/4 ton is nothing for a decent engine crane, or even a reasonable cheap one.
My budget engine crane will happily lift 250Kgs at full extension and 1000Kgs at minimum extension. It's what you do with the engine once it's out where the problem comes. It needs to go on a stout trolley so moving it is easy.
The whole lot will need come forwards a few inches, so the upper bell housing bolts can be accessed. Once the box is free from the engine, the box can remain in the transmission tunnel.
Absolutely and less likely to be thrashed if it's from a vehicle that's not considered to be "performance" orientated.
The whole front unbolts, so leaving a huge hole between the wings to pull the engine through.
It's probably 230Kgs dressed weight, which includes all ancillarys. You could likely loose 50Kgs by removing all ancillarys before stripping the engine out.
1/4 ton is nothing for a decent engine crane, or even a reasonable cheap one.
My budget engine crane will happily lift 250Kgs at full extension and 1000Kgs at minimum extension. It's what you do with the engine once it's out where the problem comes. It needs to go on a stout trolley so moving it is easy.
The whole lot will need come forwards a few inches, so the upper bell housing bolts can be accessed. Once the box is free from the engine, the box can remain in the transmission tunnel.
Absolutely and less likely to be thrashed if it's from a vehicle that's not considered to be "performance" orientated.
Cheers for the excellent replies as always
An engine holder would be perfect so u can turn it upside to take things apart etc , then fit all new belts, tensioner , oil pump cover etc , along with pulling the sump pan off to double and triple check everything and filter for any metal swarf
Also watched a fascinating video where u can test pistons pressures with an oscilloscope, clever stuff and if I read it right it compares how much the electric wave pattern of the starter motor output is , so if a bore has a lower pressie the starter won’t need to use as much energy, slot of it didn’t go over my head , lol ,
So no surprise there then,
Would be a dream of having a garage and post lift , lift the body off and work on it throughout the winter
It was fairly common knowledge about the TDV6 and early D4 crankshafts but I have seen a lot of later D4's with crankshaft problems. The latest being about a month ago a 2015 3.0 SDV6 Discovery 4 with 36,000 miles - Land Rover did not want to know about it as it was out of warranty, and it had only been services at main dealers.
I find it outrageous that things like this happen with no comeback on JLR. It is not even covered on many third party warranties as it is a "known manufacturing defect" and it is a lottery as to whether JLR pay for all, part or none of the work - more often they will not pay for any of it.
It is a constant worry for me with a 2014 D4, so much so I have pretty much stopped using it and have gone back to the D2 as my main vehicle. It's on finance and a soon as it's paid it will be gone, not to be replaced.
