M

micknkazzyfonce

Active Member
Good afternoon, a little advice please Gents.
As far as I know the starter battery is the original factory fitted, I've been humming & harring, wether to replace it, sometimes a couple of cranks to start. As usual I've read all sorts of stuff, might upset onboard electrics (re-callibrate windows etc) need a plug-in gadget to "tell the car" what's happening.
It all sounds a bit messy compared to a simple battery out ----- battery in, job done.
It is a dual battery car, so I thought the small one would "look after" all the vehicle electronics during the "Out - In" period; even if I wanted to try & "service" it via my Milenco 8 stage (multi battery type 20 charger).
The starter battery is:- Exide. 12V. 90Ah 850 A (EN). AGM / VRLA / MF. CPLA-10655-CA
Any clarity would be very welcome, just trying to avoid a garage bill if possible; thanks in advance.
Regards. Mick
 
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Rather than spend any money at a "garage", spend some money on a battery tester ( my choice is the TopDon BT50 - on the bay and the zone for £50 ish ), and some proper diagnostics so you know what is going on, and/or can post the codes and data on here so we can either laugh, or cry at the issue with you..:eek: :confused: :D ..

@gstuart is the man to ask about diagnostics .. so I've tagged him!!:):):)
 
Hi, i'm affraid you need a dedicated diagnostic tool for that, unless they are not exagerating:

i quote from
WSM-16779 - Workshop Manual Discovery 4 / LR4 (LA) 2013
PUBLISHED: 15-FEB-2017
2013.0 DISCOVERY 4 / LR4 (LA), 414-01
BATTERY, MOUNTING AND CABLES
BATTERY (G1817421)
REMOVAL AND INSTALLATION
.....

  1. NOTE:
    This step is necessary when installing a new battery.

    Using Land Rover approved diagnostic equipment, reset the battery monitoring system (BMS).
......
 
Nodge68 said:
All modern vehicles are the same. In theory a battery change needs to be done at a dealer, and that's across the board for pretty much all cars now.
There are exceptions to this, but on the whole most modern vehicles need to have the BMS reset when a new battery is fitted.
Click to expand...
STINKS!:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Wang a battery on it and dont worry
Big battery is main starter battery, smaller one is stop start battery, when smaller one dies your stop start feature no longer works, when main one fails car will not start!

Vag cars you are meant to enter the bar code of the genuine only (very expensive) battery when replacing, guess what I have done more than once?
 
Plus 1 ^^^^

As a side note see the Autel ap200 ( white ) can also reset the BMS , think there around £60.00

indeed as others have said really need a decent fully charged battery in these otherwise ur get faults galore

Chargers , many of us use CTEK , personally have the 7.0 as it comes with a supply which is very handy when ur using a code reader

hope that also helps
 
Disco1BFG said:
Rather than spend any money at a "garage", spend some money on a battery tester ( my choice is the TopDon BT50 - on the bay and the zone for £50 ish ), and some proper diagnostics so you know what is going on, and/or can post the codes and data on here so we can either laugh, or cry at the issue with you..:eek: :confused: :D ..

@gstuart is the man to ask about diagnostics .. so I've tagged him!!:):):)
Click to expand...

hi mate

plus 1 ref the topdon items have one of there battery testers , in the years to come ur need a diagnostic code reader on wheels to reset everything , lol
 
lynall said:
Vag cars you are meant to enter the bar code of the genuine only (very expensive) battery when replacing
Click to expand...

FFS!

Stanleysteamer said:
STINKS!:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Click to expand...

Amen.

IIRC, my our SIIA, which I passed my test in had the same battery on for at least ten years.. pretty sure when it was done being able to start a vehicle, it went on electric fence duty, probably for another ten years... I actually remember weighing the thing in !
 
Disco1BFG said:
FFS!



Amen.

IIRC, my our SIIA, which I passed my test in had the same battery on for at least ten years.. pretty sure when it was done being able to start a vehicle, it went on electric fence duty, probably for another ten years... I actually remember weighing the thing in !
Click to expand...
I have also witnessed a Motabitz fitting a new battery and connecting it up with jumpleads to the battery leads in the car, While the old battery was still on the car in order to retain radio code, etc etc. This worked fine.
Not knowing the complications of new cars I do not see why this wouldn't work, as if the car will take a battery charger being connected why shouldn't it take another battery being connected?
Just saying!;)
 
Stanleysteamer said:
I have also witnessed a Motabitz fitting a new battery and connecting it up with jumpleads to the battery leads in the car, While the old battery was still on the car in order to retain radio code, etc etc. This worked fine.
Not knowing the complications of new cars I do not see why this wouldn't work, as if the car will take a battery charger being connected why shouldn't it take another battery being connected?
Just saying!;)
Click to expand...

Plus 1 as I always wondered that regarding using a jump pack when changing over a battery

However I assume the BMS won’t automatically reset itself to factory settings and therefore needs the diagnostics to tell the BMS to reset itself to its original state and relearn , wonder if it’s the same/ similar when resetting the gearbox adaptions after changing the ATF oil

Or wonder if maybe if the BMS isn’t reset it carries on telling the alternator to re charge at a higher rate if the battery is old / discharges quicker , then when a new battery is fitted if the old BMS settings could possibly damage the new battery

of course know ur extremely knowledgeable, it was just a thought of me trying to understand the reasoning

all good fun of owning more modern vehicles, lol
 
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Stanleysteamer said:
Not knowing the complications of new cars I do not see why this wouldn't work, as if the car will take a battery charger being connected why shouldn't it take another battery being connected?
Click to expand...
I'll try to make it short cos they overcomplicated a simple thing: The BMS(battery monitoring system) is very complex, it is tracking the battery state of charge and age and stores them in it's volatile memory so any sudden change of parameters will mix it up, not the case when a charger is connected to the known battery. If you don't reset the BMS when you put a new battery it will work on the old stored parameters and will treat the new battery like an old one. This way the charging management will not be optimal for the new battery which can then lead to decreased life of it and other associated oddities so not a catastrophic thing if it's missed but good to be done
 
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Stanleysteamer said:
I have also witnessed a Motabitz fitting a new battery and connecting it up with jumpleads to the battery leads in the car, While the old battery was still on the car in order to retain radio code, etc etc. This worked fine.
Not knowing the complications of new cars I do not see why this wouldn't work, as if the car will take a battery charger being connected why shouldn't it take another battery being connected?
Just saying!;)
Click to expand...

Not as simple as that, the cars are so clever they have a different charging algorithms depending on the state/age/capacity of the battery, different batteries also require different charging and voltages to each other, ie flooded lead acid, agm and so on.

So if you try your trick to replace a duffer battery the car will still thing the duffer is fitted and overcharge the new battery.

Wifes audi (not new it is a 2013) has posts under the bonnet even though the battery is in the boot, this is so you jump start it and also when its being charged the current goes through the cars brain so it know it has been charged/jumped etc.

Even my d3 whilst not that smart has a pretty clever alternator which is told what to do by the engines ecu via pwm signals, nowt like keeping it simple!
 
lynall said:
Not as simple as that, the cars are so clever they have a different charging algorithms depending on the state/age/capacity of the battery, different batteries also require different charging and voltages to each other, ie flooded lead acid, agm and so on.

So if you try your trick to replace a duffer battery the car will still thing the duffer is fitted and overcharge the new battery.

Wifes audi (not new it is a 2013) has posts under the bonnet even though the battery is in the boot, this is so you jump start it and also when its being charged the current goes through the cars brain so it know it has been charged/jumped etc.

Even my d3 whilst not that smart has a pretty clever alternator which is told what to do by the engines ecu via pwm signals, nowt like keeping it simple!
Click to expand...
This would seriously boil my p!ss.:mad::mad::mad:
(I have no feckin idea what a pwm signal is for a start. :rolleyes:)
When it is charging a batt as it drives along, doesn't it have the sense to measure the voltage as it is going along?
As an old fashioned dynamo or alternator would?
Oh no! It's "cleverer" than that.
(No it's not.)
This is frankly NOT progress and seems to me to be simply designed to make money for the main stealers.
A friend of mine in the motor trade was telling me today that a guy he knows who works in one told him that as far as the new Landies and Rangies are concerned, they expect to see 7 out of 10 back with them within about 6 weeks of having been sold, from brand new.
bonkers!
 
Stanleysteamer said:
This would seriously boil my p!ss.:mad::mad::mad:
(I have no feckin idea what a pwm signal is for a start. :rolleyes:)
When it is charging a batt as it drives along, doesn't it have the sense to measure the voltage as it is going along?
As an old fashioned dynamo or alternator would?
Oh no! It's "cleverer" than that.
(No it's not.)
This is frankly NOT progress and seems to me to be simply designed to make money for the main stealers.
A friend of mine in the motor trade was telling me today that a guy he knows who works in one told him that as far as the new Landies and Rangies are concerned, they expect to see 7 out of 10 back with them within about 6 weeks of having been sold, from brand new.
bonkers!
Click to expand...

I think it is simply that the modern cars electric demands are so high that the old fashioned max voltage of 13.8/14 is simply not enough, so they have that ramped up to just over 15volts, and to stop the battery dying they need smart tech to control it!
Guy I work with knows someone who works at LR and he tells me that the decent techs do all the routine servicing as that is where the money/bonus are at, and they let the newbies do all the diagnostics work, so that is why they are back at the dealership time after time!

PWM signals are quite interesting, have a google and a read, even the heater fan in the D3 is PWM controlled!
You can buy PWM controller on pcb for a few quid to play with some old fan motor etc
 
lynall said:
I think it is simply that the modern cars electric demands are so high that the old fashioned max voltage of 13.8/14 is simply not enough, so they have that ramped up to just over 15volts, and to stop the battery dying they need smart tech to control it!
Guy I work with knows someone who works at LR and he tells me that the decent techs do all the routine servicing as that is where the money/bonus are at, and they let the newbies do all the diagnostics work, so that is why they are back at the dealership time after time!

PWM signals are quite interesting, have a google and a read, even the heater fan in the D3 is PWM controlled!
You can buy PWM controller on pcb for a few quid to play with some old fan motor etc
Click to expand...
Why the heck don't they just go the full monte then and make them 24 volt motors? Known tech, used on military vehicles FFR and lorries, and with an Alternator they could have a step down transformer to 12 volts for anything that absolutely has to work on that, with diodes etc to make it DC and stick the spare in another feckin 12 v battery.
Simples!
(Sez he who knows feck all about electronix except how much he hates it!! sorry, but it actually makes me laugh that they build a car with more electronix than it can easily handle!!!)

Re the PWM. I'll have to wait until Monday to check this out as that is when my school days begin!!!!!! ;):D:D:D
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Why the heck don't they just go the full monte then and make them 24 volt motors? Known tech, used on military vehicles FFR and lorries, and with an Alternator they could have a step down transformer to 12 volts for anything that absolutely has to work on that, with diodes etc to make it DC and stick the spare in another feckin 12 v battery.
Simples!
(Sez he who knows feck all about electronix except how much he hates it!! sorry, but it actually makes me laugh that they build a car with more electronix than it can easily handle!!!)

Re the PWM. I'll have to wait until Monday to check this out as that is when my school days begin!!!!!! ;):D:D:D
Click to expand...

Ah see now trucks were always 24v, apart from the yanks who love 12v for some reason.
Then we have the newer scanias that everyone in the game calls new gen, and they are 24v chassis with the cab being 12v.
Bet you cannot guess who owns scania these days?


Thats right the Vag group!
 
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