The_Big_P said:
The test is pointless. At 16 I was entitled to drive agri vehicles on the road as long as I displayed L plates (gave up after a week as kept falling off)

But many a time I would hitch on a 40ft trailer fully loaded up with half tonne bags of fertiliser And drive down down the main road legally, and that was at 16 on a provisional yet I can't tow a couple of tonnes behind a car:confused::confused:
Click to expand...

you should still have had a person over 21 years of age having held a tractor licence for more than 3 years with you, there is no special exemption from the rule that all drivers must be accompanied by a qualified driver! plus that tractor mus fall within limits (less than 2.45m wide and with a trailer less than 2.45m wide)
 
The_Big_P said:
But if you did it retero fit and had receipts for the parts could you get LR or someone approved body to stamp out a new VIN?
Click to expand...

it would be more hassle than its worth for what it would cost it would be easier and cheaper to sell it and buy an HD
 
G-man said:
you should still have had a person over 21 years of age having held a tractor licence for more than 3 years with you, there is no special exemption from the rule that all drivers must be accompanied by a qualified driver! plus that tractor mus fall within limits (less than 2.45m wide and with a trailer less than 2.45m wide)
Click to expand...

But even so, even at 17 I was still doing the same. If you drive 12 miles to the boat to pick up fertiliser at 27mph you make sure you have a full load. If I came back with half a load and there was more to collect I got shot.

This was the tractor.

gallery_882_268_131736.jpg


No idea what the width of a 40ft trailer is.
 
redhand said:
I had a trailer that was twin axled but unbraked with a bed that was 4ft6" by 8ft6" which meant you could drop a sheet of 8x4 ply or plasterboard in it without trapping ya hands the sides were about 12" deep.Iit weighed 250KG which allowed 500kg or half a tonne Load. The axles were rated at 1tonne each.

I once took it to the quarry in North Wales and filled it crushed slate waste. (for chippings for a drive) the bed was full and the top of the pile was about 8" above the sides. I reckon it must have had about 3tonnes in it. had me mates Disco in low rangee with difflock on going down the hill & the trailer was pushing us all the way to the bottom. :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

:eek::eek:
 
The_Big_P said:
But even so, even at 17 I was still doing the same. If you drive 12 miles to the boat to pick up fertiliser at 27mph you make sure you have a full load. If I came back with half a load and there was more to collect I got shot.

This was the tractor.

gallery_882_268_131736.jpg
Click to expand...

Just 'cos ya did it dunt mean it was legal, just meant ya dint get caught or Dibble were'nt arsed bout checkin ya;)
 
The_Big_P said:
But even so, even at 17 I was still doing the same. If you drive 12 miles to the boat to pick up fertiliser at 27mph you make sure you have a full load. If I came back with half a load and there was more to collect I got shot.

This was the tractor.

gallery_882_268_131736.jpg


No idea what the width of a 40ft trailer is.
Click to expand...

2.45m is 8 foot and a gnats cock

also to get the GVW changed on a vehicle you would need to take the vehicle to a VOSA testing station (one that does HGVs i think) then get it checked and they i think can issue you with a re-plating certificate

Change to the revenue weight for larger vehicles
For changes to the revenue weight you’ll need to produce a plating certificate or design weight certificate.
 
GRATCH said:
Just 'cos ya did it dunt mean it was legal, just meant ya dint get caught or Dibble were'nt arsed bout checkin ya;)
Click to expand...

Well technically once I passed me car test I could drive any agri vehicle. AFAIK there is no restrictions.

The point I'm getting it as after I passed me car test I load up a 40ft er with half tonne bags of fert and drive on the road legally, yet I can't tow a couple of tonnes behind a 4x4.:confused:

I always maintained if I hit someone or something at full ding fully loaded in a tractor I'd do more damage than I would at 50 in a RRC and couple er tonne behind me. Tell that to the law makers, they know best.:rolleyes:
 
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G-man said:
2.45m is 8 foot and a gnats cock

also to get the GVW changed on a vehicle you would need to take the vehicle to a VOSA testing station (one that does HGVs i think) then get it checked and they i think can issue you with a re-plating certificate

Change to the revenue weight for larger vehicles
For changes to the revenue weight you’ll need to produce a plating certificate or design weight certificate.
Click to expand...

A 40ft-er is 8ft wide:eek:

Tractor was capable of the weight, 18T version of this

redrock_trailers_w500.jpg


Packed full of compacted silage straight out of the pit, onto a weigbridge and the whole outfit would be about the 43T mark and the tractor took it all in it's stride. And that was with a dodgy clutch. :eek:
 
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To be honest Agri vehicles is a bit of a grey area and cos Dibble don't know it, they don't bother to check, just leave it to the ministry to pull everyone on market day.
 
paul_c said:
Ivor Williams are only too happy to SELL a trailer plate to their customers, based on the fear/misinformation of this issue. How much does it cost to buy the amended weight plate off them?
Click to expand...

When I bought my 3.5T trailer(not an ifor) I had this weight discussion with the guy that sold it to me and he said all he does is carry a dymo gun with him, if the vehicle he's driving can tow 2000kg he just dymo's out a 2000kg sticker and sticks it on the plate.

He said the law states the GVW of the trailer must be affixed to a plate on the vehicle, it doesn't say how

Though he hadn't actually checked if it was legal or not but it might be worth looking in to
 
The_Big_P said:
Well technically once I passed me car test I could drive any agri vehicle. AFAIK there is no restrictions.

The point I'm getting it as after I passed me car test I load up a 40ft er with half tonne bags of fert and drive on the road legally, yet I can't tow a couple of tonnes behind a 4x4.:confused:

I always maintained if I had someone or something at full ding fully loaded in a tractor I'd do more damage than I would at 50 in a RRC and couple er tonne behind me. Tell that to the law makers, they know best.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

erm no... not legally unless you took yer tractor test at the same time

so unless you have F on the back of your licence you can't! (and it needs to be a capital F cause little f is only provisional)
 
G-man said:
erm no... not legally unless you took yer tractor test at the same time

so unless you have F on the back of your licence you can't! (and it needs to be a capital F cause little f is only provisional)
Click to expand...

Really? didn't know that/ I was told once I passed me car test that was me fully licensed to drive tractors.

On a provisional car licence you have the provisional tractor licence.
 
The_Big_P said:
Really? didn't know that/ I was told once I passed me car test that was me fully licensed to drive tractors.

On a provisional car licence you have the provisional tractor licence.
Click to expand...

yep you also have provisional motorcycle, and provisional mowing machines/pedestrian controlled vehicles
 
G-man said:
yep you also have provisional motorcycle, and provisional mowing machines/pedestrian controlled vehicles
Click to expand...

But to be honest, which farm worker goes and does the full tractor test? I've never even heard of one. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm orf to me ****in' chariot.
 
Ian Griffiths said:
Yeah just looking for it now, is that VOSA information in postable format?
Click to expand...

Sorry Ian, only just logged back on and read through the thread. The info I was given was by phone, talking to one of VOSA's 'enforcers'. They're actually quite helpful and, certainly the one I spoke to, know what they're talking about.

Basically Paul_C says it about right, particularly about the bit regarding law in the UK preventing things, not enabling them - it boils down to this, pretty much:

The MAM of the trailer isn't relevant to the vehicle, only to the trailer and to the licence the driver holds.

To really spell it out;

If:

1. The driver is licensed B+E...

AND

2. The actual mass of the trailer and load combined at the time of an alleged offence is less than the plated towing capacity of the tow vehicle...

AND

3. The total mass of trailer, load and towing vehicle doesn't exceed the gross train weight (largest number on the VIN, usually) of the towing vehicle...

AND

4. The actual mass of the trailer and it's load combined doesn't exceed the plated MAM of the trailer.

Then NO OFFENCE is committed. If you don't comply with any one of the above then an offence IS committed, you WILL be reported for it and likely you'll get a fine and points and won't be able to complete your journey.

[important bit]
I'd seriously encourage anyone who is in any doubt about their legality to tow to phone VOSA and speak to them before towing - it'll take a lot less time than arguing the toss with them at the side of the road when you're in the wrong because you didn't know the facts.
[/important bit]

Some other examples:

1. Just because I have a hoody doesn't mean I mug old ladies and hang around bus shelters smoking regals and hash.

2. A 1.8 freelander can break the speed limit (just), but you don't see plod and VOSA pulling all of them for speeding (many of them are already broken down due to HGF or unbelievable gayness and, while the book figures suggest they'll break 70, they're obviously going nowhere!)

3. Just because I have a trailer which can be laden to exceed the limits of the current towing vehicle, doesn't mean I'm going to, any more than I am going to overload my 1 tonne single axle tipper just because I can tow 3.5 tonne with my Defender.
 
paul_c said:
What offence is commited if you tow a trailer with MAM above the towing capacity of the vehicle, but unloaded or part-loaded such that the ACTUAL weight is below the towing capacity of the vehicle?
Click to expand...

I couldn't provide the legislation because I had to do something else.

My first thoughts are to that question that you would be driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence, as the requirements of your licence are that the plates fit.

The vehicle is not overweight in terms of the VOSA requirement - but you're not licensed to drive it.

If what Adz has posted above is correct that is good news for me - means I can use my Freelander to pick up an (empty) Ifor LM146G tomorrow instead of the V8, thus saving me a large amount of cash.

If I get stopped on the way home, expect an update.
 
This also contradicts the advice from Ifor Williams - who say the trailer can be downplated.

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/towing-laws/1763

My towing vehicle has a maximum towing capacity of 2000kg and my trailer has a maximum gross weight of 2600kg. My trailer weight with a load never exceeds 2000kg, can I still tow it with my vehicle?

In these circumstances it is possible to get your trailer down-rated. To arrange this please contact our Customer Care department.

On down-rating we would supply a new plate to your distributor who would use it to replace your original plate. Please note that this plate cannot be supplied to anyone other than an authorised Ifor Williams Trailers distributor.
 
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