Neptune19522 said:

Ben,

PopPops,
After much mucking about between Mac PC and MS laptop the SD card now has some data on it but still having trouble getting something other than file names. My laptop is potentially too ancient for this modern kit. The SD card has BBS and SBL files. I did, try to, down load the CSV option but again I have no idea how to access any files it may have created.

Click to expand...

OK, looks like you are making progress. At least the card seems to be recognised now. I'll try to get back with what I have done to record a few minutes of live data and get it onto a PC. I'm not sure what your computer knowledge is, so if I pitch it too basic, I apologise. I must also say, I am no expert, I've just managed to get things to work! My biggest problem with the Nanocom is my fingers are a bit big for the touch screen!!

PopPops,
I know how to switch them on and even use some programs but after that I just press enough buttons until I fumble over the answer; or more often not!

I do have an in built proclivity to always find the way to screw them up... So basic is good!

Neptune19522 said:

PopPops,
I know how to switch them on and even use some programs but after that I just press enough buttons until I fumble over the answer; or more often not!

I do have an in built proclivity to always find the way to screw them up... So basic is good!

Click to expand...

I think what you need to do is get a recording of "inputs fueling" from start-up when the throttle is not working.

Refer to the Nanocom manual, https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/downloads/preview/nanocom-evolution-software-hardware-manual , and follow the section "Diagnostics files" page 15, the first paragraph of this section is all you need, any filename will do, I often use just A or B or X etc. the Nanocom will add the CSV for you, you don't need to worry about BBS or SBL on the card, and start the recording at start-up and stop it at any suitable point, say after 5 minutes. Once you have the recording, put the SD card into your computer and get the file you have just made, for example A.CSV, and upload it here.

I hope this helps.

Just back from weekly shop. Initial start up 12 sec, start at supermarket 30 mins later 34 sec. There is something very wrong with this vehicle!

Will try your suggestion soonest.

Neptune19522 said:

Just back from weekly shop. Initial start up 12 sec, start at supermarket 30 mins later 34 sec. There is something very wrong with this vehicle!

Will try your suggestion soonest.

Click to expand...

Yes, I think you will need to get a recording of inputs fueling, particularly when the fault is present.

I have attempted to capture several starts. However apart from the delay reducing I am having trouble accessing the files. I will ask my computer savvy niece to assist on Monday. Until then thanks for your assistance and watch this space.

I'm sure it must have been said but , have you tried staring it in neutral? Assuming its an auto?

Russel 1,
It hasn't been said but at the moment I am open to any possible idea. I would stand on one leg and crank with my left hand if it would start properly...

Russel 1,
It would appear that your idea has merit! I tried to start in Neutral and it would not crank. I have always suspected the xyz switch so I replaced this with one I had. Also I interrogated 'Rave' and found the truth table for the Disco2. The 'Rave' truth table and the vehicle table, interrogated by Nanocom, did not align unless you reversed the four lines; I have found, and indeed corrected, Rave documents before! Assuming that Rave is incorrect and the vehicle is correct the xyz switch is now working correctly and indeed the vehicle will start in Neutral. Unfortunately the first crank took over 120sec but then fell dramatically below 10 sec for the next two starts. I will try it tomorrow when it will have a cold engine and hopefully the start will give me throttle authority in under 10 sec...

Neptune19522 said:

Russel 1,
……Also I interrogated 'Rave' and found the truth table for the Disco2. The 'Rave' truth table and the vehicle table, interrogated by Nanocom, did not align unless you reversed the four lines; I have found, and indeed corrected, Rave documents before!…

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I believe it is the Nanocom which is incorrect and I flagged it on here and reported it to Nanocom too. I think the “error” has also been noticed by others.

Nanocom and Rave would align if you reverse the lines. To explain Rave has W, X, Y and Z reading from top to bottom. If you reverse these such that W now becomes Z, X becomes Y, Y becomes X and Z becomes W then the truth table lines up. But I am happy that the error is Nanocom and not my former colleagues! Nanocom needs to alter its table to Z,Y, Z and W read from top to bottom. Of course the '0' and '1' remain in place!

Finally managed to create requested files, however the site has refused the files as they do not have the accepted file extension! Therefore I will post the three files below. Clumsy I know but I do not have the ability to change the file extensions on my Mac... The below tables do not line up with the headings as this site, like my Mac, does not like 'Excel' files; sorry!

The first file, 'A', was taken with the engine running. The second, 'AB, was from crank. The third, "AC", was from just before crank. There was a delay on B and C. On each delay there is a lumpy running at below the usual 750 rev / min. Just before the engine ECU decided to increase the revs there is almost a 'hiccup' then up to 750 rev/ min and off we go!

I am not sure of the Nanocom sample rate is but the engine revs clearly on file AB and AC Showa the delay before throttle authority is achieved.

If anyone can advise me as to what this is and how to cure it I would be most pleased.

Sorry for cluttering up this page but it seems the only way to present the information!

A CVR 24may001
NANOCOM - TD5ENG.APP - TD5 ENGINE input file

Engine Speed (rpm) Road Speed (Km/h) Idle Speed Error (rpm) Accel. Way 1 (V) Accel. Way 2 (V) Accel. Way 3 (V) Accel. Supply (V) Battery (V) Air Flow (gr/hr) Ambient Pressure (Kpa) Manifold Turbo Pressure (Kpa) Air Inlet Temp. (°C) Coolant Temp. (°C) Fuel Temp. (°C) EGR Inlet (%) EGR Modulator (%) Wastegate Modulator(%) Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5
462 0 -147 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 13.43 46.9 99.87 99.91 33.7 39.7 33.9 0 0 0 0 -14 0 0 0
599 0 -146 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.16 43.9 99.87 100.19 33.7 39.7 34 0 0 0 -4 -5 11 -5 3
649 0 -114 0.571 4.465 4.682 5.01 14.26 48.5 99.87 100.19 33.5 39.7 34 0 0 0 -4 0 8 -9 6
664 0 -88 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.48 50.5 99.87 100.2 33.2 39.7 33.9 0 0 0 -1 -2 2 -3 4
680 0 -81 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.29 51.5 99.87 100.19 32.9 39.7 33.5 0 0 0 -7 -2 3 4 5
680 0 -69 0.571 4.471 4.677 5.01 14.13 52 99.73 100.2 32.5 39.7 33 0 0 0 -5 -2 1 4 5
687 0 -75 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.38 51.2 99.87 100.19 32.2 39.7 33 0 0 0 -5 -1 -1 3 5
698 0 -69 0.571 4.465 4.682 5.01 14.38 52 99.87 100.3 32 39.7 32.7 0 0 0 -10 5 1 6 -1
696 0 -75 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.35 53.2 100 100.19 31.7 39.7 32.5 0 0 0 -7 2 0 2 0
689 0 -70 0.571 4.471 4.677 5.01 14.38 53.2 99.87 100.19 31.5 39.5 32.5 0 0 0 -7 5 2 1 -1
668 0 -61 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.35 53 99.87 100.19 31.1 39.4 32.5 0 0 0 1 -1 2 2 -5
779 0 13 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.35 60.2 99.87 100.2 30.8 39.4 32.5 0 0 0 -5 1 0 -6 4
767 0 3 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.26 58.9 99.73 100.48 30.7 39.2 32.5 0 0 0 -1 -3 2 1 3
759 0 6 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.32 59.5 99.87 100.48 30.5 39.2 32.5 0 0 0 -1 2 1 -4 5
761 0 4 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.38 59.5 99.87 100.2 30.2 39 32.7 0 0 0 -1 0 -1 1 4
756 0 259 1.815 3.25 4.08 5.01 14.35 60.5 99.73 100.2 30 39 32.7 0 0 0 -6 3 3 2 0
662 0 -79 0.565 4.46 4.677 5.01 14.32 52.5 99.73 100.48 29.7 39 32.7 0 0 0 -5 -4 4 -7 7
764 0 -5 0.565 4.46 4.677 5.01 14.42 57.2 100 100.2 29.6 39 32.7 0 0 0 -5 -2 4 -1 3
775 0 4 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.1 59 99.87 100.2 29.5 38.9 32.7 0 0 0 -7 1 2 -5 6
756 0 2 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.42 58.9 99.87 100.2 29.2 38.7 32.9 0 0 0 -1 -2 1 -3 5
760 0 0 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.1 58.7 100 100.2 29.1 38.7 32.9 0 0 0 -2 -1 2 -1 2
758 0 -7 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.48 58.9 99.87 100.2 29 40 33 0 0 0 -5 2 1 2 1
759 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.42 58.9 99.87 100.2 28.8 38.9 33.2 0 0 0 -5 2 1 -2 4
757 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.682 5.01 14.42 59.9 99.87 100.48 28.7 38.7 33.2 0 0 0 -3 4 0 -2 2
757 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.42 59.4 99.87 100.2 28.6 38.7 33.4 0 0 0 2 -2 -4 5 3
755 0 -2 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.38 59.2 100 100.2 28.5 38.7 33.4 0 0 0 0 2 0 -2 3
757 0 1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.51 59.2 100 100.2 28.3 38.7 33.5 0 0 0 3 -2 -1 2 2

AB CVR 24may002
NANOCOM - TD5ENG.APP - TD5 ENGINE input file

Engine Speed (rpm) Road Speed (Km/h) Idle Speed Error (rpm) Accel. Way 1 (V) Accel. Way 2 (V) Accel. Way 3 (V) Accel. Supply (V) Battery (V) Air Flow (gr/hr) Ambient Pressure (Kpa) Manifold Turbo Pressure (Kpa) Air Inlet Temp. (°C) Coolant Temp. (°C) Fuel Temp. (°C) EGR Inlet (%) EGR Modulator (%) Wastegate Modulator(%) Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5
462 0 -147 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 13.43 46.9 99.87 99.91 33.7 39.7 33.9 0 0 0 0 -14 0 0 0
599 0 -146 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.16 43.9 99.87 100.19 33.7 39.7 34 0 0 0 -4 -5 11 -5 3
649 0 -114 0.571 4.465 4.682 5.01 14.26 48.5 99.87 100.19 33.5 39.7 34 0 0 0 -4 0 8 -9 6
664 0 -88 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.48 50.5 99.87 100.2 33.2 39.7 33.9 0 0 0 -1 -2 2 -3 4
680 0 -81 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.29 51.5 99.87 100.19 32.9 39.7 33.5 0 0 0 -7 -2 3 4 5
680 0 -69 0.571 4.471 4.677 5.01 14.13 52 99.73 100.2 32.5 39.7 33 0 0 0 -5 -2 1 4 5
687 0 -75 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.38 51.2 99.87 100.19 32.2 39.7 33 0 0 0 -5 -1 -1 3 5
698 0 -69 0.571 4.465 4.682 5.01 14.38 52 99.87 100.3 32 39.7 32.7 0 0 0 -10 5 1 6 -1
696 0 -75 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.35 53.2 100 100.19 31.7 39.7 32.5 0 0 0 -7 2 0 2 0
689 0 -70 0.571 4.471 4.677 5.01 14.38 53.2 99.87 100.19 31.5 39.5 32.5 0 0 0 -7 5 2 1 -1
668 0 -61 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.35 53 99.87 100.19 31.1 39.4 32.5 0 0 0 1 -1 2 2 -5
779 0 13 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.35 60.2 99.87 100.2 30.8 39.4 32.5 0 0 0 -5 1 0 -6 4
767 0 3 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.26 58.9 99.73 100.48 30.7 39.2 32.5 0 0 0 -1 -3 2 1 3
759 0 6 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.32 59.5 99.87 100.48 30.5 39.2 32.5 0 0 0 -1 2 1 -4 5
761 0 4 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.38 59.5 99.87 100.2 30.2 39 32.7 0 0 0 -1 0 -1 1 4
756 0 259 1.815 3.25 4.08 5.01 14.35 60.5 99.73 100.2 30 39 32.7 0 0 0 -6 3 3 2 0
662 0 -79 0.565 4.46 4.677 5.01 14.32 52.5 99.73 100.48 29.7 39 32.7 0 0 0 -5 -4 4 -7 7
764 0 -5 0.565 4.46 4.677 5.01 14.42 57.2 100 100.2 29.6 39 32.7 0 0 0 -5 -2 4 -1 3
775 0 4 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.1 59 99.87 100.2 29.5 38.9 32.7 0 0 0 -7 1 2 -5 6
756 0 2 0.571 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.42 58.9 99.87 100.2 29.2 38.7 32.9 0 0 0 -1 -2 1 -3 5
760 0 0 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.1 58.7 100 100.2 29.1 38.7 32.9 0 0 0 -2 -1 2 -1 2
758 0 -7 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.48 58.9 99.87 100.2 29 40 33 0 0 0 -5 2 1 2 1
759 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.42 58.9 99.87 100.2 28.8 38.9 33.2 0 0 0 -5 2 1 -2 4
757 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.682 5.01 14.42 59.9 99.87 100.48 28.7 38.7 33.2 0 0 0 -3 4 0 -2 2
757 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.42 59.4 99.87 100.2 28.6 38.7 33.4 0 0 0 2 -2 -4 5 3
755 0 -2 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.38 59.2 100 100.2 28.5 38.7 33.4 0 0 0 0 2 0 -2 3
757 0 1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01 14.51 59.2 100 100.2 28.3 38.7 33.5 0 0 0 3 -2 -1 2 2


AC CVR 24may003
NANOCOM - TD5ENG.APP - TD5 ENGINE input file

Engine Speed (rpm) Road Speed (Km/h) Idle Speed Error (rpm) Accel. Way 1 (V) Accel. Way 2 (V) Accel. Way 3 (V) Accel. Supply (V) Battery (V) Air Flow (gr/hr) Ambient Pressure (Kpa) Manifold Turbo Pressure (Kpa) Air Inlet Temp. (°C) Coolant Temp. (°C) Fuel Temp. (°C) EGR Inlet (%) EGR Modulator (%) Wastegate Modulator(%) Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5
0 0 -760 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 12.35 4.5 99.87 100.77 34.0 39.2 33.2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 -760 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 12.39 4.5 99.87 100.77 34.0 39.2 33.2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 0
603 0 -149 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 13.53 42.5 99.87 100.19 34.2 39.2 33.2 0.00 0.00 0.00 7 3 15 24 45
594 0 -163 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.22 42.9 99.87 100.19 34.0 39.2 33.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -2 0 8 -9 3
617 0 -133 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.26 45.4 100.00 100.19 33.7 39.2 33.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -3 -5 6 -4 6
662 0 -98 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.45 50.2 99.87 100.19 33.5 39.2 33.4 0.00 0.00 0.00 -2 -4 3 -2 -1
675 0 -84 0.565 4.460 4.682 5.015 14.51 50.0 99.87 100.19 33.0 39.2 33.0 0.00 0.00 0.00 3 -2 0 1 -2
667 0 -88 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.42 50.5 99.87 100.19 32.7 39.2 32.7 0.00 0.00 0.00 4 -1 -1 -2 6
679 0 -74 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.38 52.2 99.87 100.19 32.5 39.2 32.7 0.00 0.00 0.00 -3 1 -4 1 5
690 0 -66 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.35 52.2 99.87 100.19 32.2 39.2 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1 -2 -5 3 8
695 0 -74 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.32 53.0 100.00 100.20 32.0 39.2 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -2 1 -2 0 6
694 0 -68 0.565 4.442 4.677 5.010 14.42 53.0 99.87 100.19 31.7 39.0 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -2 2 -1 3 4
669 0 -133 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.42 42.9 99.87 100.20 31.3 39.0 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -9 -11 -14 11 1
729 0 -12 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.35 58.5 99.87 100.19 31.2 38.9 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1 0 2 -5 6
771 0 9 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.38 57.5 99.87 100.20 31.0 38.7 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 -3 4 -1 3
759 0 -3 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.38 59.2 99.87 100.19 30.7 38.5 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -4 1 4 -1 1
761 0 2 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.13 57.9 99.73 100.19 30.5 38.5 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 -2 4 2 1
758 0 2 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.45 60.2 100.00 100.20 30.2 38.5 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 -3 3 1 -1 3
758 0 -1 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.35 58.5 99.87 100.20 30.0 38.4 32.5 0.00 0.00 0.00 0 -1 -1 1 1
755 0 -10 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.42 58.9 99.87 99.91 29.8 38.4 32.7 0.00 0.00 0.00 -4 3 2 3 -1
762 0 -1 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.48 57.2 99.87 100.20 29.7 38.4 32.7 0.00 0.00 0.00 -5 4 1 -3 3
758 0 -2 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.42 58.4 99.87 100.48 29.5 38.2 32.7 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1 0 1 2 1
757 0 3 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.38 58.5 100.00 100.20 29.3 38.2 32.9 0.00 0.00 0.00 -5 4 2 -5 -1
754 0 -3 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.07 58.0 100.00 100.20 29.2 38.2 33.0 0.00 0.00 0.00 -3 3 -1 -3 2
758 0 -2 0.565 4.460 4.677 5.010 14.38 59.4 100.00 100.20 29.1 38.2 33.0 0.00 0.00 0.00 -3 3 2 3 -1
761 0 -6 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 14.16 58.2 99.87 100.19 29.0 38.2 33.2 0.00 0.00 0.00 -5 4 1 -3 -1
0 0 -760 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.010 13.18 5.5 99.87 100.77 28.7 38.2 33.2 0.00 0.00 0.00 -26 4 -23 3 -1
0 0 -760 0.565 4.460 4.682 5.010 13.12 5.6 99.87 100.77 28.7 38.2 33.4 0.00 0.00 0.00 -26 4 -23 3 -1

I think I have found out how to put on the site.These three are in fact Excel files. I hope that you can read them!

According to those files the throttle wasnt even touched too much except one reading in file B which can be a glitch being only one input where accel way 1 was 1.815 in the rest the throttle inputs ar showing untouched pedal... as about intermittent lower revs after start up can be something which puts load on the engine for a short time, remove the drive belt and try that way... what oil do you have in the engine?

Also do you wait each time for the warning lights to go out before you crank it?

Pressing the throttle had zero effect upon the delay except perhaps prolonging it. Prior to when this whole issue broke out there was no requirement to press the throttle until power was required to move off and before the engine ECU change this was a maximum of 10 seconds not the 120 seconds that I am now experiencing..
The oil was changed just after I got the engine to run, at 99,960miles, but while it was refusing to give me throttle authority a 120 sec delay. The same oil as I have always used for the past five years 5W/40 synthetic desiel oil as sold by Halfords. I have performed my own oil changes for the past 40 years; this is the only engine that has this delay symptom.

I agree with Fery, it is a shame the throttle wasn't touched, maybe you could do another recording blipping the throttle when the fault is present and after.

I compared your Accel. voltages with some recent and historic recordings I have for mine (throttle untouched) and there are some differences:
Yours: 0.565 4.465 4.677 5.01
Mine: 0.775 4.289 4.691 5.032

Accel. 3 and Accel. Supply are very similar, but there is a 4% difference in Accel. 2 and a fairly massive 37% difference in Accel. 1. I don't know if this difference is a problem or a "red herring". I'm not sure what tolerance there is on these voltages before the ECU starts getting upset. All the other values are are very similar to mine, except for injector balance which is probably just a symptom of the problem anyway.

Interesting problem!!

Neptune19522 said:

Pressing the throttle had zero effect upon the delay except perhaps prolonging it. ....

Click to expand...

If you press the throttle, the Accel. values should change in the recording which could give another clue.

Neptune19522 said:

.... I have always used for the past five years 5W/40 synthetic desiel oil as sold by Halfords....

Click to expand...

I am currently using exactly this oil in mine...!!

The accel way inputs are OK for an untouched pedal, if the pedal is pressed and accel way 1 and 2 have no instant reaction then it's ECU fault or something on the TPS circuit(provided the TPS is 100% good). IMO the ECU should be ruled out first

I was advised by the chap who looked after the Engine ECU, at JLR, that throttle peddle pressing was not required upon starting up and up to the insertion of this replacement engine ECU I have never needed to press the throttle upon starting. Experience in the past, post fitting replacement ECU, was that any attempt to press the throttle before full revs was established just delayed that hiccup before full throttle authority was available. The engine now starts up in a slightly 'lumpy' mode then settles down for a little with a slight increases in revolutions until that hiccup which has, pre ECU change, occasionally stalled the engine - usually on cold days i.e. around 4deg C to -1deg C or lower. Frustrating but not a problem. I think the problem has always been there. On reading the Rave item on auto gear boxes I note that any faults that have not been repeated, within 40 cycles, are deleted. Perhaps I should just drive it and wait for 40 cycles?

I acknowledge your description of 'interesting' however I apply the epithet of 'infuriating'... Still if it was easy everyone would be doing it!

Just spent £500 on this 'replacement' and I do not want to spend another £500 (580 euro)! However I am thinking of contacting the vendor and see it he has another ECU. Duck pink Elephant flying past...