Neptune19522
Active Member
J,
Please keep the stupid ideas coming. Many scientific breakthroughs came from accidents or 'silly' ideas. Penicillin was found by pure accident and how many lives has it saved or is still saving today. Hurray for the silly ideas. NB I would stand on one leg scratching my left elbow with my foot if that would help to input these codes...
Ken
Please keep the stupid ideas coming. Many scientific breakthroughs came from accidents or 'silly' ideas. Penicillin was found by pure accident and how many lives has it saved or is still saving today. Hurray for the silly ideas. NB I would stand on one leg scratching my left elbow with my foot if that would help to input these codes...
Ken
Dont forget the pics when you try it
.All I can say is listen to sierrafery he knows this stuff and will sure do his best to get you through it
.J
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
I went out to make a demo and uploaded to youtube... unfortunately the quality of the video is not the best as the sun was shining into the screen but you can make an ideea , nanocom plugged in, ignition on 2... i just erased and inserted randomly the letters and off course escaped without saving them but you can see how it works, the missed commands are due to my gorilla hands as i hardly can touch only one character on that small screen
Neptune19522
Active Member
Fery,
Thanks for the video. I will try anything but from what I have seen I have been doing just what you did except using the touch screen on the keyboard page. At 70 years old the mind is not as flexible as is needed. NB I use my little finger for that tiny screen...
Thanks for the video. I will try anything but from what I have seen I have been doing just what you did except using the touch screen on the keyboard page. At 70 years old the mind is not as flexible as is needed. NB I use my little finger for that tiny screen...
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
If you manage to insert the code press OK off course not escape like i did then after all codes are changed write settings..and neglect the "Inj type" button
then after all codes are changed write settings..and neglect the "Inj type" buttonNeptune19522
Active Member
OK after sorting out that basic finger trouble; I now have all five injectors coded correctly; hurray. Unfortunately there is still a considerable delay between engine start and throttle authority. After two starts, with what seemed a considerable delay, I got my stopwatch out and timed the third start as 25 seconds delay. Also the tick over seems a little lower than I remember. But then there is that quite sever knocking which I have put down above to the faulty adjustment of the injector cam 'tappets'. Could this affect the delay? One former colleague who looked after the TD5, at least the electrical side, thought that there could be a starting error in the the engine is not 'starting' properly, not the mechanical bit but the electronic bit. How do you confirm that the electronics are working correctly at start up?
Neptune19522
Active Member
Fery,
I found using a pencil for those keys very easy; the pencils with a rubber tip on one end for erasing(US) rubbing out(UK),,,
I found using a pencil for those keys very easy; the pencils with a rubber tip on one end for erasing(US) rubbing out(UK),,,
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
You start it up and if it's running well you have the confirmation
...which in your case is the other way around, the throttle delay is most probably electronic issue, for me the ECU is suspect
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Neptune19522
Active Member
Isn't this where we started? I will contact the breakers yard, on Monday, where I purchased it, (£500 - sellers market), and see if he is prepared to a/ replace it or b/ refund my fee. Don't hold your breath!
Hoping that this is the last time I will need your wise council and experience may I thank you for all your patient work and assistance!
Until the next time...
Hoping that this is the last time I will need your wise council and experience may I thank you for all your patient work and assistance!
Until the next time...
Neptune19522
Active Member
I have been thinking about this all weekend and at the moment I am not prepared to condemn the Engine ECU! To explain:- This vehicle has always, since I purchased it about four years ago, had a delay on starting. This showed itself most obviously on cold days but never longer than ten seconds, quite ofter not at all particularly if the engine was warm, which is why I may not have seen it as my routine is start the engine, seat belt on, confirm radio - if traveling alone - then pull away. I have noticed the incidence of this increasing of late, well before I changed the ECU. The Lucas engine ECU will tolerate many faults and substitute a value from memory. Now heres the rub, at the moment my 'new' ECU has almost no memory! So I have chosen to check out all the sensors and the wiring. The MAF is new so I will assume that that is clean and fault free. The MAP/IAS was cleaned and the pin-out was to drawing. The AAP. Temp sensor has a pin-out error or my drawings are wrong. (Quite possible as I frequently had to correct the drawing team - until I was on that team...)! Therefore I have a question to anyone who has experience of this sensor, (Perhaps it should be called a AAP&T sensor), situated in the removals 'lid' of the air filter. Accordant to the Workshop manual I have, 1999 to 2003 and the Nanocom page, the pin out is engine ECU pin8 (sensor power) to sensor 'D', ECU pin10 to 'C', ECU pin 31 to 'B' and ECU pin 30 to 'A'. On my vehicle, which as stated above the previous owner has 'mucked about' with this vehicle, I have pin 8 to cavity 'C' and pin 10 to cavity 'D' on AAP&T connector on the filter box. Can someone who has experience of several Disco2's give me a definitive pin out please?
I have to say that if this situation has been getting "progressively worse" then it doesn't sound like a misconnected pin-in/pin-out.
It sounds far more like a sensor getting progressively dirtier or sending worse signals.
I once accidentally disconnected or rather forgot to reconnect my MAP/Iat sensor and it drove like sh!te. VERY similar to yours only not after start up, all the time.
I know you have cleaned yours but for the cost, might it not be worth just changing it?
And I am the LAST person normally to advocate firing the parts gun at a problem. But to me sensors are more or less service items.
Not being @sierrafery I don't know the answer to this, but "what would be the risk if you simply swapped over the apparently incorrect pin-in and pin-out?"
Best of luck mate!
It sounds far more like a sensor getting progressively dirtier or sending worse signals.
I once accidentally disconnected or rather forgot to reconnect my MAP/Iat sensor and it drove like sh!te. VERY similar to yours only not after start up, all the time.
I know you have cleaned yours but for the cost, might it not be worth just changing it?
And I am the LAST person normally to advocate firing the parts gun at a problem. But to me sensors are more or less service items.
Not being @sierrafery I don't know the answer to this, but "what would be the risk if you simply swapped over the apparently incorrect pin-in and pin-out?"
Best of luck mate!
Neptune19522
Active Member
If you are not an optimist when driving a Land Rover then you would go out of your mind...
However the AAP&T connector is now correct to the Nanocom pinout. As to the MAF I was sold it as OEM equipment. And the problem was there before the engine ECU fell over so I cannot see my old MAF and a OEM(?) new MAF having the same problems, but as Sean Connery said, "Never say never". However this problem that I always have had is now more prevalent, intermittent faults are very difficult to find and generally easy to fix; or so I hope. The policy exhibited by most garages is to change parts until you have effectively a new engine or car and are broke! I now live on a pension so little slack to replace everything twice until either I run out of money or the problem is fixed.
However the AAP&T connector is now correct to the Nanocom pinout. As to the MAF I was sold it as OEM equipment. And the problem was there before the engine ECU fell over so I cannot see my old MAF and a OEM(?) new MAF having the same problems, but as Sean Connery said, "Never say never". However this problem that I always have had is now more prevalent, intermittent faults are very difficult to find and generally easy to fix; or so I hope. The policy exhibited by most garages is to change parts until you have effectively a new engine or car and are broke! I now live on a pension so little slack to replace everything twice until either I run out of money or the problem is fixed.
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
IIRC, the live inputs were OK on your's and if that sensor is miswired it should trigger a fault code and cause running issues cos the pressure input is used for boost calculation and the ambient temp input which is not displayed by diagnostic tools is used for smoke limiter maps albeit if the ECU detects a probem from that sensor it goes to default values and that switching used to take few seconds but not mre than 30. At the AAP/T sensor's plug the wire colours must be as in the pic, first letter is te main colour, the second the trace(neglect the description as it's MAF cos that's a mistake)... corroborate with the colour codes cos i doubt that somebody messed with the wires at the ECU plug
Neptune19522
Active Member
Fery,
Thanks for the advise and wiring colour code, but I have been using that code for about 40 years!
Reading the workshop manual I note that the fault condition of the AAP&T seem to fit in with my symptoms that I have had for some time but getting worse. For one when using kick down to overtake as I pull out the engine seems to 'hiccup' and I have to back off the throttle - not a good thing when alongside a lorry.
A former colleague has identified that the coolant temp sensor, if faulty, could hold the revs below the level that the throttle becomes active; I will test that tomorrow! Also he mentioned the glow plugs but I think it is too warm for those to be a problem.
I have found the elec library on my memory stick for D2 with all the connector location pictures and I plan to test the hi / low switch tomorrow; connector just next to the gear lever; this has given me problems in the past.
Thanks for the advise and wiring colour code, but I have been using that code for about 40 years!
Reading the workshop manual I note that the fault condition of the AAP&T seem to fit in with my symptoms that I have had for some time but getting worse. For one when using kick down to overtake as I pull out the engine seems to 'hiccup' and I have to back off the throttle - not a good thing when alongside a lorry.
A former colleague has identified that the coolant temp sensor, if faulty, could hold the revs below the level that the throttle becomes active; I will test that tomorrow! Also he mentioned the glow plugs but I think it is too warm for those to be a problem.
I have found the elec library on my memory stick for D2 with all the connector location pictures and I plan to test the hi / low switch tomorrow; connector just next to the gear lever; this has given me problems in the past.
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
That can be overboost if the boost exceeds 1.42 bar or te so called "MAF cut out" if the air flow exceeds 680 reading under load, or low fuel pressure ...you can figure out which one by watching the MAP and MAF readings when it occurs, also check voltage across fuse F10 with multimeter set on mV https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/check-td5-fuel-pump-hp.358086/ this might cause a throttle delay too. I dont know which workshop manual told you that the AAP/T sensor would cause what you described cos in mine it's:
In the event of an AAP sensor signal failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
l Altitude compensation inoperative (engine will produce black smoke).
l Active boost control inoperative.
l Turbocharger boost pressure limited to 1 bar (14.5 lbf.in2).
I EGR altitude compensation inoperative.
so nothing to do with kickdown or "hiccups" just eventually low boost and black smoke as the smoke limiter map is buggered also nothing to do with throttle delay on start-up
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Neptune19522
Active Member
No boost when overtaking! OK limiter boost just when you need maximum.
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
I edited my previous post, read it again ...and that
makes no sense to me
