L

Larsern

Member
All ready for the final assembling.

Would be nice if somebody could have a brief glance at the picture and tell me if I am on the right track.

Have been off with the head after loosing the timing. Luckily the valves are still good. Have had a check of the valves and the head.

Have lost the relationship between the sprockets completely, so I have to do the timing from the bottom.

Engine is at TDC on no. 1 cyl. timing pin is located in the flywheel. (it is not a tight fit, can move the crankshaft a couple of mm with the pin in the hole)

Crankshaft woodruff key is at 3 o'clock pointing towards the mark on the oil pump casing.

Woodruff key on the FIP is pointing at 12 o'clock. So now I think it is ready for the sprocket wheels with the chains.

Are there any thing I have overlooked?

Suppose it is advisable / necessary to do a static timing of the FIP when everything is in place?

Any other good advice or tricks when it comes to mount the front cover and the head would also be appreciated.

Thanks for any advice.
Lars E
 

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I think your timing pin is in the wrong hole, there should be no movement.
Timing is detailed in RAVE.
 
Datatek said:
I think your timing pin is in the wrong hole, there should be no movement.
Timing is detailed in RAVE.
Click to expand...

The pin moves a tiny amount even when locked in place as it pivots slightly. Not much though.

Wammers type question but he's away. I think JohnnyCrash did the timing on his old one so there might be something in one of his old threads or give him a PM.
 
Grrrrrr said:
The pin moves a tiny amount even when locked in place as it pivots slightly. Not much though.

Wammers type question but he's away. I think JohnnyCrash did the timing on his old one so there might be something in one of his old threads or give him a PM.
Click to expand...
I've never done it, but if the OP can move the crank a couple of mm and the FIP timing is done to fractions of a mm, I can't see it's right.
 
Datatek said:
I've never done it, but if the OP can move the crank a couple of mm and the FIP timing is done to fractions of a mm, I can't see it's right.
Click to expand...

He's timing the lot up, not just the pump.

I think you're right though, it cannot be moving that much. Although the timing pin is pretty tight it does wiggle a bit though. I needed to push it in and out quite a few times before it was free enough to push in easily. There's a hole in the end of the timing pin so you can get a screwdriver in there and pull it out easily. My memory is a bit hazy but I think the timing pin is 9 mm in diameter.

IIRC you follow the dipstick down to its base then go across to the right and down under an overhang is a plastic cap on the flywheel housing. That's where the TDC hole is.
 
Grrrrrr said:
He's timing the lot up, not just the pump.

I think you're right though, it cannot be moving that much. Although the timing pin is pretty tight it does wiggle a bit though. I needed to push it in and out quite a few times before it was free enough to push in easily. There's a hole in the end of the timing pin so you can get a screwdriver in there and pull it out easily. My memory is a bit hazy but I think the timing pin is 9 mm in diameter.

IIRC you follow the dipstick down to its base then go across to the right and down under an overhang is a plastic cap on the flywheel housing. That's where the TDC hole is.
Click to expand...
But there is ore than one hole in the flywheel I seem to remember from another thread.
 
Datatek said:
But there is ore than one hole in the flywheel I seem to remember from another thread.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. When you do the pump you first get the number 1 cam lobe vertical and then turn until the pin drops in. But all the chains are already in place. Question is, how does it all line up before you put the chains on? I seem to remember some of the chain links are slightly lighter and they line up with something but I've never done the job. Guess it must be in RAVE.
 
There is a tiny bit of movement when the timing pin is in, but bear in mind it is toward the other edge of the flywheel, where a mm of play is a fraction of a degree. The FIP sprocket is tiny in comparison, so the same actual movement in mm would be a few degrees. So, whilst it would be great if there was zero play in the timing pin, you can't equate movement at the flywheel with movement at any of the sprockets.
 
I put a dial gauge on no 1 piston and moved the crankshaft as much as the timing pin would allow. The piston moved 0.5 mm up and down.
Measured the timing pin, and it is slightly smaller than indicated by Wammers in another tread. Spigot is 7.67mm (7.89) probably what gives the movement.
Hopefully will be able to test during the weekend.
Lower chain has two copper coloured links that goes towards the marks on the lower spigot and on the FIP spigot. Impossible to miss.

Lars E
 
Got it all together and timed up right. THE ENGINE IS WORKING!!!!!!

Static timing first at 0.90mm, but changed that to 0.95mm after reading a note by Wammers (new chains same as motor gone less than 20K)
This gave me first a timing modulation on idle about 67 and not much below even when giving some tiny throttle.
After changing the static to 0.95mm the timing modulation is down to 63 at cold idle and about the same when warm, at 2000 revs the timing modulation varies between 43 and 57 depending on the amount of throttle I must apply.
My .. how nice the engine is running now. (family is already complaining that they cant hear me coming home any more)

Idle is a bit high, 840 revs. Idle value is 138. So I should probably try to inch the value down by a step at a time until it reaches 750 revs, isn't that the right value?

Anyway, thanks guys for good inputs on this thread and the other threads I have made since the lower chain jumped a link a couple of months ago.

Has not at all been funny when the neighbours starts coming around to show their sympathy with the sooty diesel smelling creature head down in the engine room. -in between the rain showers-

Have a splendid summer. (from 63 degrees north)

All the best

Lars E

Chief Engineer P38 M51
 
Larsern said:
Got it all together and timed up right. THE ENGINE IS WORKING!!!!!!

Static timing first at 0.90mm, but changed that to 0.95mm after reading a note by Wammers (new chains same as motor gone less than 20K)
This gave me first a timing modulation on idle about 67 and not much below even when giving some tiny throttle.
After changing the static to 0.95mm the timing modulation is down to 63 at cold idle and about the same when warm, at 2000 revs the timing modulation varies between 43 and 57 depending on the amount of throttle I must apply.
My .. how nice the engine is running now. (family is already complaining that they cant hear me coming home any more)

Idle is a bit high, 840 revs. Idle value is 138. So I should probably try to inch the value down by a step at a time until it reaches 750 revs, isn't that the right value?

Anyway, thanks guys for good inputs on this thread and the other threads I have made since the lower chain jumped a link a couple of months ago.

Has not at all been funny when the neighbours starts coming around to show their sympathy with the sooty diesel smelling creature head down in the engine room. -in between the rain showers-

Have a splendid summer. (from 63 degrees north)

All the best

Lars E

Chief Engineer P38 M51
Click to expand...
well done, yes drop the revs by reducing the count slowly should be 750 +/- 50rpm.
 
Larsern said:
Got it all together and timed up right. THE ENGINE IS WORKING!!!!!!

Static timing first at 0.90mm, but changed that to 0.95mm after reading a note by Wammers (new chains same as motor gone less than 20K)
This gave me first a timing modulation on idle about 67 and not much below even when giving some tiny throttle.
After changing the static to 0.95mm the timing modulation is down to 63 at cold idle and about the same when warm, at 2000 revs the timing modulation varies between 43 and 57 depending on the amount of throttle I must apply.
My .. how nice the engine is running now. (family is already complaining that they cant hear me coming home any more)

Idle is a bit high, 840 revs. Idle value is 138. So I should probably try to inch the value down by a step at a time until it reaches 750 revs, isn't that the right value?

Anyway, thanks guys for good inputs on this thread and the other threads I have made since the lower chain jumped a link a couple of months ago.

Has not at all been funny when the neighbours starts coming around to show their sympathy with the sooty diesel smelling creature head down in the engine room. -in between the rain showers-

Have a splendid summer. (from 63 degrees north)

All the best

Lars E

Chief Engineer P38 M51
Click to expand...

Well done. Great effort. I hope that crank bolt is done up all the way - see what happened to SaintV8's Defender when someone thought only so far was good enough!

The timing modulation is dependent on some electronics within the top of the fuel pump. A worn pump seems to lead to a higher value - similarly a tired lift pump as it is somewhat dependent on fuel pressure. Other things are used as well such as temperature and air pressure. I can mail you some Bosch stuff on the FIP if you PM me your e-mail address.
 
Not sure but look similar. When I did mine I bought off the bay of E:

US PRO VW/Audi 3-In-1 Bosch VE Fuel Injection Pump Adapter Timing Tool B3178
( 131537974535 )

Dial Test Indicator / DTI Guage / Clock Gauge TDC TE107
( 140849917986 )

BMW & LANDROVER 1.8 2.5 TD TDS TD5 P38 CHAIN DRIVEN ENGINE TIMING TOOL SET
( 360458607197 )

I put it in a thread somewhere. Might have been called stalling when hot or something similar. Or maybe diesel timing tools.
 
Larsern said:
Got it all together and timed up right. THE ENGINE IS WORKING!!!!!!

Static timing first at 0.90mm, but changed that to 0.95mm after reading a note by Wammers (new chains same as motor gone less than 20K)
This gave me first a timing modulation on idle about 67 and not much below even when giving some tiny throttle.
After changing the static to 0.95mm the timing modulation is down to 63 at cold idle and about the same when warm, at 2000 revs the timing modulation varies between 43 and 57 depending on the amount of throttle I must apply.
My .. how nice the engine is running now. (family is already complaining that they cant hear me coming home any more)

Idle is a bit high, 840 revs. Idle value is 138. So I should probably try to inch the value down by a step at a time until it reaches 750 revs, isn't that the right value?

Anyway, thanks guys for good inputs on this thread and the other threads I have made since the lower chain jumped a link a couple of months ago.

Has not at all been funny when the neighbours starts coming around to show their sympathy with the sooty diesel smelling creature head down in the engine room. -in between the rain showers-

Have a splendid summer. (from 63 degrees north)

All the best

Lars E

Chief Engineer P38 M51
Click to expand...

Hi,
what were the symptoms when the lower chain jumped link? could it be started easily cold or hot? how was the smoke? any extra noises?
I' m going through a messy period after changing my timing chains. Car starts on the button when cold but when it's hot , no chance.

thanks in advance.
 
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