wammers · Aug 30, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
The Gen III’s have quite a different design to the II’s. At least according to Arnott. They are not only longer allowing more travel (with longer shocks).

But the biggest advantage is on road. The Gen III’s unlike the Gen II’s essentially run the other way round. They are softer when extended and stiffer when lowered.

The Gen II like the Dunlop, BritPart or OEM setup is soft for motorway lowered height and stiff (maximum inflation) for extended ride height off road. Which is essentially the completely wrong thing you want for each scenario.

I believe the Gen III’s work very similar to the struts on the L322 and D3.

There is no off road setting on the P38 only a wade setting. You need longer shocks and modified sensor rods with gen 3. Nearest thing mine ever gets to off road is mildly moist grass. Mind you my drive is a challenge at times. Steep, twisty and bumpy. Even going over speed humps in wade is uncomfortable. It's a road car with some off road capability not a cross country vehicle suitable for roads. Lots forget that.

300bhp/ton · Aug 30, 2018

wammers said:
There is no off road setting on the P38 only a wade setting. You need longer shocks and modified sensor rods with gen 3. Nearest thing mine ever gets to off road is mildly moist grass. Mind you my drive is a challenge at times. Steep, twisty and bumpy. Even going over speed humps in wade is uncomfortable. It's a road car with some off road capability not a cross country vehicle suitable for roads. Lots forget that.

I know you know a fair amount about these. But I don’t agree with you on this.

The p38 is not just a road car. It is a highly capable off road machine. Ladder chassis and live axles and arguably the best axle travel design of any of the Land Rover setups.

Latter models have 4 wheel off road biased TCS as well as the great wheel travel. Meaning they have the ability to out perform Defenders in many off road situations.

The handbook clearly states the high suspension mode is for off road

As said. The Gen III’s offer something none of the other air springs offer.

-A firm controlled spring when going quickly
-A soft compliant spring when off road

The ability to gain additional suspension travel from them is just an additional bonus. Above and beyond their main perk.

wammers · Aug 30, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
I know you know a fair amount about these. But I don’t agree with you on this.

The p38 is not just a road car. It is a highly capable off road machine. Ladder chassis and live axles and arguably the best axle travel design of any of the Land Rover setups.

Latter models have 4 wheel off road biased TCS as well as the great wheel travel. Meaning they have the ability to out perform Defenders in many off road situations.

The handbook clearly states the high suspension mode is for off road

As said. The Gen III’s offer something none of the other air springs offer.

-A firm controlled spring when going quickly
-A soft compliant spring when off road

The ability to gain additional suspension travel from them is just an additional bonus. Above and beyond their main perk.

I don't think people spent a large amount of money buying one new with the main purpose being to play off road. It for sure has massif off road ability but that is not it's main purpose. As said it is a road vehicle with off road capability not an off roader with road capability. The nearest thing most P38s have been to off road is as said, is parking up on damp grass on a day out or up the kerb to park. There are of course people possibly like yourself that enjoy off roading. But the vast majority of P38s have never been off road.

Grrrrrr · Aug 30, 2018

Mine goes off road regularly!

As for the spring rate on the gen III. I read the blurb. I find the firmness of my Dunlops even at motorway height more than adequate, although I prefer to waft in comfort rather than corner like a track-day. I am always amazed how well my P38 soaks up the bumps when off road when sometimes it feels a little harsh on the road. That said, I'd absolutely love to try a set of gen III just to see if the difference is noticeable.

Grrrrrr · Aug 30, 2018

EntropyUK said:
Cheers for the offer Jules I will txt you. I do have a ride height sensor jumping about with its readings and will swap it with the one on the other side to check if its the wiring or the sensor (as advised on this forum) whilst changing the bags.

No problem. I'll try and find them. They were in a black bag at the back of the shed somewhere last time I looked ... possibly in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet with a notice on it saying "Beware of the tiger!".

wammers · Aug 30, 2018

Grrrrrr said:
No problem. I'll try and find them. They were in a black bag at the back of the shed somewhere last time I looked ... possibly in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet with a notice on it saying "Beware of the tiger!".

In the shed is a funny place to keep porn.

wammers · Aug 30, 2018

Grrrrrr said:
Mine goes off road regularly!

As for the spring rate on the gen III. I read the blurb. I find the firmness of my Dunlops even at motorway height more than adequate, although I prefer to waft in comfort rather than corner like a track-day. I am always amazed how well my P38 soaks up the bumps when off road when sometimes it feels a little harsh on the road. That said, I'd absolutely love to try a set of gen III just to see if the difference is noticeable.

Of course it does, with respect it's only worth five bob so it's no problem. But would you have paid £50,000.00 quid for it new and gone off road unnecessarily? I think not.

300bhp/ton · Aug 30, 2018

wammers said:
I don't think people spent a large amount of money buying one new with the main purpose being to play off road. It for sure has massif off road ability but that is not it's main purpose. As said it is a road vehicle with off road capability not an off roader with road capability. The nearest thing most P38s have been to off road is as said, is parking up on damp grass on a day out or up the kerb to park. There are of course people possibly like yourself that enjoy off roading. But the vast majority of P38s have never been off road.

I suspect when much newer and for the U.K. market. Vast majority is probably correct. For the age p38’s are now and the rest of the world. I suspect it’s the minority that haven’t been off road at some point in their life.

They are capable and affordable. And in some markets taking newish 4x4’s off road is perfectly normal and far more acceptable than it is in the U.K. Just take a look at the myriad of videos on YouTube.

At a recent event:

300bhp/ton · Aug 30, 2018

Grrrrrr said:
Mine goes off road regularly!

As for the spring rate on the gen III. I read the blurb. I find the firmness of my Dunlops even at motorway height more than adequate, although I prefer to waft in comfort rather than corner like a track-day. I am always amazed how well my P38 soaks up the bumps when off road when sometimes it feels a little harsh on the road. That said, I'd absolutely love to try a set of gen III just to see if the difference is noticeable.

P38’s are definitely harsh when in the raised suspension mode off road. They sort of bounce. Being an owner of a modified leaf sprung Land Rover and a heavily modified coil one and access to loran of other Land Rovers. The p38 is arguably the worst for suspension control off road. Due to the stiffness of the air springs at the height.

I often run my p38 in motor way mod on the road (with the inhibit switch) because it rises better than in the standard mode. Which is really the wrong way round. If it had ACE it’d be not so bad from a handling point of view.

Don’t get me wrong. The NVH and comfort overall is great in the p38. Bit running the same green lanes in other Land Rovers and comparing to the p38 in the high suspension mode. The p38 rides the bumps the worst.

wammers · Aug 30, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
I suspect when much newer and for the U.K. market. Vast majority is probably correct. For the age p38’s are now and the rest of the world. I suspect it’s the minority that haven’t been off road at some point in their life.

They are capable and affordable. And in some markets taking newish 4x4’s off road is perfectly normal and far more acceptable than it is in the U.K. Just take a look at the myriad of videos on YouTube.

At a recent event:

Not knocking you enjoy your sport. Each to their own.

Grrrrrr · Aug 30, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
P38’s are definitely harsh when in the raised suspension mode off road. They sort of bounce. Being an owner of a modified leaf sprung Land Rover and a heavily modified coil one and access to loran of other Land Rovers. The p38 is arguably the worst for suspension control off road. Due to the stiffness of the air springs at the height.

I often run my p38 in motor way mod on the road (with the inhibit switch) because it rises better than in the standard mode. Which is really the wrong way round. If it had ACE it’d be not so bad from a handling point of view.

Don’t get me wrong. The NVH and comfort overall is great in the p38. Bit running the same green lanes in other Land Rovers and comparing to the p38 in the high suspension mode. The p38 rides the bumps the worst.

Maybe we should contact Arnott and see if they'll do a bulk buy on the gen III for the "Landyzone Owners Club" @ £100 a corner?! I'd be tempted by that.

Datatek · Aug 30, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
The Gen III’s have quite a different design to the II’s. At least according to Arnott. They are not only longer allowing more travel (with longer shocks).

But the biggest advantage is on road. The Gen III’s unlike the Gen II’s essentially run the other way round. They are softer when extended and stiffer when lowered.

The Gen II like the Dunlop, BritPart or OEM setup is soft for motorway lowered height and stiff (maximum inflation) for extended ride height off road. Which is essentially the completely wrong thing you want for each scenario.

I believe the Gen III’s work very similar to the struts on the L322 and D3.

Never understood the claim that Arnott Gen 3's are soft extended and hard at motorway height. To my simple mind it is necessary to increase the air pressure to raise the height, more pressure = harder, much like blowing up a tyre.
Gen 3's are really only worthwhile for serious off roading.
I have one P38 on Gen 2's and one on new Dunlops, both on OEM shocks, the ride is certainly more supple on the Arnott's.

300bhp/ton · Aug 30, 2018

Grrrrrr said:
Maybe we should contact Arnott and see if they'll do a bulk buy on the gen III for the "Landyzone Owners Club" @ £100 a corner?! I'd be tempted by that.

+1

300bhp/ton · Aug 30, 2018

Datatek said:
Never understood the claim that Arnott Gen 3's are soft extended and hard at motorway height. To my simple mind it is necessary to increase the air pressure to raise the height, more pressure = harder, much like blowing up a tyre.
Gen 3's are really only worthwhile for serious off roading.
I have one P38 on Gen 2's and one on new Dunlops, both on OEM shocks, the ride is certainly more supple on the Arnott's.

Info here on how they work.
https://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/suspension/arnottgen3.html

Datatek · Aug 31, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
Info here on how they work.
https://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/suspension/arnottgen3.html

I have seen that.

300bhp/ton · Aug 31, 2018

Datatek said:
I have seen that.

Ok

Anyhow the bit that explains it is this bit. Note the diagram. And the size of the piston vs the airbag. Comparable spring rates also given.

If you want a way to visualise how it works. Pretend you have an inflated party balloon in front of you (not over inflated, just blown up).

If you prod it with the tip of you finger (small surface area) it’ll probably feel quite soft and allow a lot of deformation. Because you are only displacing a small amount of air.

Now prod it again with the palm of you hand (large surface area). It’ll feel a lot more solid and won’t deform anywhere near as much. Despite the fact the amount of air in the balloon has remained unchanged.

Jake Hewitt · Aug 31, 2018

Grrrrrr said:
Heights shouldn't need calibrating after doing bags. I've got some blocks you can borrow.

What size are the blocks if you can remember? I've got some 4x4 in the shed and will just cut some myself

wammers · Aug 31, 2018

Jake Hewitt said:
What size are the blocks if you can remember? I've got some 4x4 in the shed and will just cut some myself

4" x 4" is no good. they need to fit in the bump stops. Sizes are in my EAS post in tech archive

Grrrrrr · Aug 31, 2018

Jake Hewitt said:
What size are the blocks if you can remember? I've got some 4x4 in the shed and will just cut some myself

As per Wammers post. You just need some dowel of the right size to fit inside the bump stop. Or failing that, a broom handle!

Jake Hewitt · Aug 31, 2018

Grrrrrr said:
As per Wammers post. You just need some dowel of the right size to fit inside the bump stop. Or failing that, a broom handle!

Thanks both, found it, now if only I could coax this spring out...

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