S

shanlea

New Member
Hi all,

Im new here and im sure the question has been asked before but the only post I found similar didn't have an answer. Ive 'inherited' a Freelander MK1 with no MOT so I was thinking of having a go at getting it through the MOT (its an 05 TD4 SE 2.0L Diesel Automatic) One of the issues is the '3 Amigos' (which were previously disguised with some carefully cut emery paper stuck in front of the dash lights! who does that and sells the car knowing its brake system is faulty?)
Ive had it checked and the rear right ABS showed up as the fault. I replaced the sensor with no difference so bought a new reluctor ring. I took the CV joint out yesterday hoping to find an old reluctor ring needing taken off and a new one tapped on. However, the CV joint had no trace of a ring and the new one that I bought was bigger than the whole joint! The one I had bought was over 80mm and the diameter of the shoulder on the joint is only ~ 53mm. Ive scanned the internet for spares to see if I can find a similar one but cant find anything. Does anyone know what the rear CV joint should look like?

Couple of pics of the joint and hub below. You can see the ABS sensor poking out the hole in the hub

Any pointers would be much appreciated

Thanks

cv joint.jpg


hub 2.jpg

hub 3.jpg
 

Attachments

  • cv joint.jpg
    cv joint.jpg
    83.4 KB · Views: 235
An 05 Freelander doesn't have a reluctor ring. I think it uses magnets in the bearing or something.

Someone will be along to say what the score is.

If they've replaced the bearing/CV/drive shaft with an earlier model one though - it won't have the necessary bits in.

As I say, not sure exactly what the setup is as mine's a '99 with the Wabco ABS and reluator ring. That was replaced in 00 with a Teves Mk20 ABS that also used a reluctor ring, then changed in 02 (I think) to Teves Mk25 that doesn't use one.
 
GrumpyGel said:
An 05 Freelander doesn't have a reluctor ring. I think it uses magnets in the bearing or something.

Someone will be along to say what the score is.

If they've replaced the bearing/CV/drive shaft with an earlier model one though - it won't have the necessary bits in.

As I say, not sure exactly what the setup is as mine's a '99 with the Wabco ABS and reluator ring. That was replaced in 00 with a Teves Mk20 ABS that also used a reluctor ring, then changed in 02 (I think) to Teves Mk25 that doesn't use one.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for the reply GrumpyGel, didn't realise there was joints that used magnets internally for the ABS. Gives me more info to scan for spares now
 
shanlea said:
Many thanks for the reply GrumpyGel, didn't realise there was joints that used magnets internally for the ABS. Gives me more info to scan for spares now
Click to expand...

The reluctor ring is in the wheel bearings on an 05 FL1, not the CV joints. Is there evidence of a recent bearing change? If so an early bearing could have been fitted, which doesn't have the ring, or it was fitted the wrong way round, which does happen from time to time.
 
Nodge68 said:
The reluctor ring is in the wheel bearings on an 05 FL1, not the CV joints. Is there evidence of a recent bearing change? If so an early bearing could have been fitted, which doesn't have the ring, or it was fitted the wrong way round, which does happen from time to time.
Click to expand...
Thanks Nodge68, theres no evidence of a recent bearing change, my daughter bought the car over a year ago so its been like this since then at least. If its magnets in the bearing I would've thought its unlikely to have failed? Will take the bearing out when I get to it next to see if its back to front. Thanks again guys
 
shanlea said:
Thanks Nodge68, theres no evidence of a recent bearing change, my daughter bought the car over a year ago so its been like this since then at least. If its magnets in the bearing I would've thought its unlikely to have failed? Will take the bearing out when I get to it next to see if its back to front. Thanks again guys
Click to expand...
Just had a thought, I replaced the ABS sensor with one that looked identical to the one that was on it. Is there different sensors? Could the one that was on it (and the one I bought) be the type for the reluctor ring?
 
shanlea said:
Hi all,

Im new here and im sure the question has been asked before but the only post I found similar didn't have an answer. Ive 'inherited' a Freelander MK1 with no MOT so I was thinking of having a go at getting it through the MOT (its an 05 TD4 SE 2.0L Diesel Automatic) One of the issues is the '3 Amigos' (which were previously disguised with some carefully cut emery paper stuck in front of the dash lights! who does that and sells the car knowing its brake system is faulty?)
Ive had it checked and the rear right ABS showed up as the fault. I replaced the sensor with no difference so bought a new reluctor ring. I took the CV joint out yesterday hoping to find an old reluctor ring needing taken off and a new one tapped on. However, the CV joint had no trace of a ring and the new one that I bought was bigger than the whole joint! The one I had bought was over 80mm and the diameter of the shoulder on the joint is only ~ 53mm. Ive scanned the internet for spares to see if I can find a similar one but cant find anything. Does anyone know what the rear CV joint should look like?

Couple of pics of the joint and hub below. You can see the ABS sensor poking out the hole in the hub

Any pointers would be much appreciated

Thanks

View attachment 184838

View attachment 184837
View attachment 184839
Click to expand...
Your lucky my garage fellas had to remove bathroom white sealant from the three amigos. Clearly to fiddle the MOT is still an art.
 
shanlea said:
Will take the bearing out when I get to it next to see if its back to front.
Click to expand...

The bearings are a tight press fit into the hub, and can't be removed without destroying the bearing.

shanlea said:
Just had a thought, I replaced the ABS sensor with one that looked identical to the one that was on it. Is there different sensors? Could the one that was on it (and the one I bought) be the type for the reluctor ring?
Click to expand...

No. The sensors are different, as they pick up from a different part of the hub. Have you done a diagnostic read, so you can identify the problem?
 
Nodge68 said:
The bearings are a tight press fit into the hub, and can't be removed without destroying the bearing.



No. The sensors are different, as they pick up from a different part of the hub. Have you done a diagnostic read, so you can identify the problem?
Click to expand...
The diagnostics pointed to the ABS Sensor so I replaced it. I thought that since I had a new sensor it must be the ring but that may not be the case! Do you know if the magnets in the bearings are strong enough to hold something like a paperclip so I can check its the right way round and definitely the sensor?
 
The magnetic part is in the sensor. As the bearing rotates, the ring in the bearing changes the magnetic flux in the sensor, which is detected and read by the ABS ECU. If the ABS ECU is showing a sensor fault, then it sounds like a sensor, as a problem with the reluctor doesn't necessarily show, unless the live sensor data is being monitored.
 
Quick question! How does the sensor detect the change in flux from the bearing when it points at the driveshaft end? Looking at the photos above the sensor is a long way from the bearing. Just pondering......
 
Hi guys, I found a youtube vid from NSK showing an ABS Bearing. Looks like the 'ring' is in the seal (screenshot attached). With this in mind, I checked my bearing and the seal looks like a normal seal and doesn't move?
ABS bearing.jpg
 
The seal will rotate with the hub. However, it is possibly an incorrect bearing as I have seen bearings listed as being the same for 2000 - 2005 cars !!
 
Thanks andyfreelandy, im hoping that's the case. The four sensors are giving the same reading, on the diode setting, reading one way and not the other. Im hoping that's expected for an active sensor? The manual suggests 950-110 ohms but there is no reading on ohms so im assuming that's for an older passive sensor?
Im planning to change the bearing to rule it out.
 
If you get stuck, see parts for sale, I can find you a late version hub complete with bearing. I will also have a look and see if I can detect any magnets as the hub is off the car.
 
Hopefully this helps. My spare hubs show signs of magnetism at the extreme perimeter in the rear of the bearing. Not so that you'd notice with a steel screwdriver but they have attracted small iron and rust particles that 'stick' when I try to move them !

There are 2 types of bearing for the F 1 - ANR5861 which serves up until VIN 1A999999 and
RFC000010 which serves from 2A000001

I have also seen the RFC000010 shown as a 'Bearing ABS' !!!

Maybe this will sort your problem, new correct bearing to replace either an incorrect one or, as said above, fitted the wrong way around.
 
And the final word for tonight is (from the LR Manual):

From 2002 MY

An active ABS sensor is installed in each of the four wheel hub carriers to provide the ABS ECU with a speed signal
from each road wheel. Each of the ABS sensors is positioned in close proximity to the inboard seal of the related wheel
bearing and secured with a bolt. The seals, which rotate with the wheels, each contain a magnetic element
incorporating 48 pole pairs.

The ABS sensors operate using the Hall effect principle. A permanent magnet inside the sensor applies a magnetic
flux to a semiconductor, which receives a power supply from the ABS ECU. When the wheels rotate, the pole pairs
in the seals induce voltage fluctuations in the ABS sensors that are converted into square wave signals and output to
the ABS ECU. The frequency of the signal is proportional to wheel speed.

Since the sensors are active devices, an output is available when the road wheels are not turning, which enables the
ABS ECU to check the sensor while the vehicle is stationary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Freelander 2: does the Freelander 2 have a removable reluctor ring?
Replies
3
Views
2K
AntMan1
A
A
FACELIFT Freelander 2005 outer front CV joint - specialized ?
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Arnodafe72
A
N
Freelander 1 rear inner cv joint - mystery ring?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Nodge68
Nodge68
M
Freelander 1 Front wheel driveshaft cv joint pulling out
Replies
5
Views
817
mdv
M
300bhp/ton
P38A ABS reluctor rings????
Replies
8
Views
1K
Grrrrrr
Grrrrrr