jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
you dont split just slacken the clamp bolts a little
The current turbo is the third since I rebuilt the engine. The first reconditioned one I sent back because it was passing and burning oil. To be honest it didn't spool up well. The replacement spooled up ok, but I still had the oil issue. Decided to buy a brand new one
that means three cartridges in the wrong position. I suspect the aftermarket return pipes are set up at the wrong angle. If it takes rotating the cartridge to suit the new return pipe then so be it.
Cheers, James. That's good to know because I probably would have taken it apart completely.
The return from the turbo must be running to capacity all the time. I reckon it doesn't take much of a narrowing of the pipe to give you problems with oil being forced out of the seal rings. You'd think they would have designed it so that the pipe was more than capable of coping with the flow.
Hot footed it back from France on Friday! Now home I'm contemplating adjusting the turbo next week, though we're forecast a lot of rain here so will have to see. Anyway, just thinking of slackening the clamp bolts to rotate the turbo body and I'm wondering if it'll be a problem for that fine rubber ring in there? Will it not drag and pucker up of something? Presumably not if you've done this before, but felt I needed to ask the question
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
slacken the exhaust side bolts remove pipe work, align the cartridge, if you need to adjust intake side squeeze the the circlip ends together whilst turning itHot footed it back from France on Friday! Now home I'm contemplating adjusting the turbo next week, though we're forecast a lot of rain here so will have to see. Anyway, just thinking of slackening the clamp bolts to rotate the turbo body and I'm wondering if it'll be a problem for that fine rubber ring in there? Will it not drag and pucker up of something? Presumably not if you've done this before, but felt I needed to ask the question
Ahh! So, the inlet side with the rubber ring doesn't have to rotate! The cartridge will rotate independently of it! Fantastic, cheers JM.
So, it's been a while but I've eventually got around to giving this a go.
Couldn't get to the rear cartridge retaining bolts so I just too the turbo completely off to slacken them. Bolted the turbo back on with the exhaust horns removed so I could see what was going on.
This is how the outlet pipe addresses the block with the turbo cartridge in it's original position.
You can see that it is misaligned with the fitting on the block.
I rotated the cartridge to get the pipe in to this position. However, it doesn't help with the misalignment.
So it get's closer to the block, but doesn't help because of the misalignment.
When I push the pipe across to get it in to the fitting it obviously bends the pipe.
You can see the misalignment by how the union is lying in the fitting. The pipe is slightly bent in this position, but the more I tighten the nut, the more it pulls the union square in to the fitting and so the more it bends the pipe.
The reason why it's so oily around there is because I can't tighten that fitting up properly because of the severity of the kink it causes, so I have to do a half way house which allows it to weep.
The outlet pipe only bolts on the turbo one way. 180 degrees the other way and it would be facing the inner wing, so I can't be fitting it the wrong way.
The only solution I can think of is a custom made pipe.
Any other ideas welcomed. Or thoughts as to what I might be doing wrong.
Dragonwalker
Well-Known Member
So, it's been a while but I've eventually got around to giving this a go.
Couldn't get to the rear cartridge retaining bolts so I just too the turbo completely off to slacken them. Bolted the turbo back on with the exhaust horns removed so I could see what was going on.
This is how the outlet pipe addresses the block with the turbo cartridge in it's original position.
View attachment 220914
You can see that it is misaligned with the fitting on the block.
I rotated the cartridge to get the pipe in to this position. However, it doesn't help with the misalignment.
View attachment 220915
So it get's closer to the block, but doesn't help because of the misalignment.
When I push the pipe across to get it in to the fitting it obviously bends the pipe.
View attachment 220916
You can see the misalignment by how the union is lying in the fitting. The pipe is slightly bent in this position, but the more I tighten the nut, the more it pulls the union square in to the fitting and so the more it bends the pipe.
The reason why it's so oily around there is because I can't tighten that fitting up properly because of the severity of the kink it causes, so I have to do a half way house which allows it to weep.
The outlet pipe only bolts on the turbo one way. 180 degrees the other way and it would be facing the inner wing, so I can't be fitting it the wrong way.
The only solution I can think of is a custom made pipe.
Any other ideas welcomed. Or thoughts as to what I might be doing wrong.
Have you tried slackening the engine mounts to see if it move a gnats over ?
I like your lateral thinking. However, the turbo is bolted to the engine and so that won't change their position relative to each other.
steve2286w
Well-Known Member
So annoying, you’ve been on this far too long , I guess you have tried slackening off other end and fitting this end first
No space for custom adaptor to align it better
Custom pipe with more flexibility may be way forward
How confident are you with unkinked pipe will solve the smoke problem
No space for custom adaptor to align it better
Custom pipe with more flexibility may be way forward
How confident are you with unkinked pipe will solve the smoke problem
Dragonwalker
Well-Known Member
I like your lateral thinking. However, the turbo is bolted to the engine and so that won't change their position relative to each other.
Poop, shame you can't put a pipe-bendy-spring down there and give it a tweak over.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
fore aft ,wont be cured by rotation are the horns secured to turbo equally fitted as suchSo, it's been a while but I've eventually got around to giving this a go.
Couldn't get to the rear cartridge retaining bolts so I just too the turbo completely off to slacken them. Bolted the turbo back on with the exhaust horns removed so I could see what was going on.
This is how the outlet pipe addresses the block with the turbo cartridge in it's original position.
View attachment 220914
You can see that it is misaligned with the fitting on the block.
I rotated the cartridge to get the pipe in to this position. However, it doesn't help with the misalignment.
View attachment 220915
So it get's closer to the block, but doesn't help because of the misalignment.
When I push the pipe across to get it in to the fitting it obviously bends the pipe.
View attachment 220916
You can see the misalignment by how the union is lying in the fitting. The pipe is slightly bent in this position, but the more I tighten the nut, the more it pulls the union square in to the fitting and so the more it bends the pipe.
The reason why it's so oily around there is because I can't tighten that fitting up properly because of the severity of the kink it causes, so I have to do a half way house which allows it to weep.
The outlet pipe only bolts on the turbo one way. 180 degrees the other way and it would be facing the inner wing, so I can't be fitting it the wrong way.
The only solution I can think of is a custom made pipe.
Any other ideas welcomed. Or thoughts as to what I might be doing wrong.
There's a lot of info out there that suggests oil passing through the turbo is usually down to poor fitting return pipe or return pipe in to block at or below oil level, so oil backs up. So, I'm reasonably confident that's this issue. Fingers crossed!
The problem with that is that the turbo position is fixed by the central part of the manifold which isn't adjustable. The strange thing is the pipe does seem to be the same amount out of alignment as the horns are different lengths! But, the horns will only go on one side because of the offset caused by the central part of the manifold.
The outside of the pipe is made of braided stainless steel, but inside it's a fairly rigid plastic pipe.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
very true my bad,
how was original cos i cant say apart from rotating the cartridge occasionally ive come across it as bad as yours
Yes, I've tried fitting different ends first. Same thing happens.
I have thought of a custom adapter. I think it would create too tight a bend over a short distance and if I'm going to do that I might as well make a full custom job.
I just appreciate folk trying to think out of the box James. No bad in that!
Originally I didn't have this problem. Even with the old turbo on that had done about 170K miles with the original return pipe. It all started after the engine did it's little run away and I had to rebuild it. It's a few years back now, but I'm pretty sure I started with the original return pipe back on. Had the oil consumption issue straight away. Remember I originally thought it was honing or running in, but then I read about poor oil return and discovered the kink in the pipe! I'm on to my 3rd replacement return pipe (possible 4th I've lost count) It seems as though something has happened to the geometry since the rebuild, but I can't understand how. It's the third turbo I've tried and so I doubt I've ordered the wrong one three times. This last one I bought from Turners as a brand new Garret. The previous two were from an online turbo recon firm.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
ive got a def 300 coming in next week ill check how it i regards the return hose
Dragonwalker
Well-Known Member
Has the manifold been changed at all ?
That will be much appreciated James, thank you.
Yes, a new turbo comes connected to the central part of the manifold, so you get a new central manifold with a new turbo.
