jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
yes its fed of the oil gallery
My Engine Removal How To - which I have yet to write I have to say - is approaching 160 photos I think at the moment...will be whittled down to a bit less than that in the end......
AS AN ASIDE: I notice in one of the photos, you have accidently managed to get a bit of paint on the machined surface of the head.....best to rub that off with a bit of 3M Scotch Brite (one of those green pan scourers) to ensure a clean mating surface.
Just being a pedant.....
AS AN ASIDE: I notice in one of the photos, you have accidently managed to get a bit of paint on the machined surface of the head.....best to rub that off with a bit of 3M Scotch Brite (one of those green pan scourers) to ensure a clean mating surface.
Just being a pedant.....
Right, I'm getting the message about the photos!
TBH, I usually mention a lack of photos in other threads, so I don't know what I've been up to. I've already removed that, you're not reading the posts thoroughly enough
I do have the machined gasket faces on the sides of the block to do though!
PLEASE feel free to point these things out though. I'm very happy to have these things pointed out, as well as any tips, tricks or anything anybody thinks 'I wonder if he has thought of............'.
I'm not proud and know I need help.
My bad....missed the line where you said you had taken a razor blade to it.....Right, I'm getting the message about the photos!
I've already removed that, you're not reading the posts thoroughly enough
I do have the machined gasket faces on the sides of the block to do though!
PLEASE feel free to point these things out though. I'm very happy to have these things pointed out, as well as any tips, tricks or anything anybody thinks 'I wonder if he has thought of............'.
I'm not proud and know I need help.
Razor bladeMy bad....missed the line where you said you had taken a razor blade to it.....
Don't know why I said that cos it was a stanley blade! I think that's an age thing
I know it's just me worrying about not putting loctite on the main cap bolts and big end bearing bolts, cos it does not mention it in the overhaul manual. But, I would appreciate it if someone, who knows, would say 'don't worry, just torque them up!'
Set about prepping the bottom end this morning.
Cleaned stuff down including the bolt holes to make them 'clean and dry'.
Blue towel roll carefully twisted down each hole.
Did the same with the oil jet tubes
Cleaned the oil jet tubes down, blew through them to check they were clear and then checked the non return valves with some strimmer line
Bolted the squirt tubes in. The manual says replace the seals, but mine did not have any when I took them out and there are non in the bottom end gasket kit I bought.Does anyone know if there should be some?
I'd taken a picture of their position and kept them in cylinder order. However, they are dowelled which locates their position so if you mix them up you can't go far wrong.
Then fitted the main shells and lubed them up with assembly lube.
Lubricated the new thrust bearings.
Fitted them grooved side outwards!
Got my son to help me carefully lower the crank in. Bolts and arms of the engine stand stopped the crank from going in! I must have bolted it up differently when it came back from the machine shop.
Put one of those adjustable stools under it and wound it up to take the weight of the block. Then disconnected the top two engine stand bolts.
Lowered the crank in.
Thought I'd put a picture of the main cap shells, as a point of reference for others. This is at 180K miles
1, 2 and 3 look great. 4 has a thin line running down the centre with a little zig zag at the top. 5 has a thin line just left of centre and is 'polished' to one side.
TBH I think they are pretty good given No4 piston top was melting and molten alloy was being scraped down the bores. Side of No4 piston wasn't great
Started fitting the seals in to main cap No5. This is a PITA cos they are a VERY tight fit.
You can't lie them in place and push them in because there is too much resistance over the whole thing.
I decided to do it bit by bot at an angle like this.
As per manual I'd lightly lubed them with new engine oil.
You have to push the sides in with a blunt screwdriver as you work it in.
Job done
Once both sides were done it was even worse to fit the cap in to the end of the block
You can get 'seal guides' special tool LRT-12-035 if you are doing this I would recommend getting them. They are two steel plates with an angle on them, they bolt in to two of the sump bolt holes and the have an angle that 'funnels' the seal in to the block.
I had to improvise
I got it started by doing the same at an angle thing to get it started.
I used an old, blunt wood chisel and used the angle of the blade to 'funnel it in'.
I held the chisel with my left hand, pushed the chisel with my stomach and tapped the cap a few times lightly with a rubber mallet. Then went around to the other side to do the same. It went in fraction of a mm at a time and took an ABSOLUTE AGE. Get the special tool!
As the cap gets close to the bottom you need to make sure the inner part of the seal is locating properly. Blunt screwdriver again.
Look at how much of the seal sticks out now! Scroll up and compare it to the first picture.
Fitted the rest of the main caps and just hand tightened them with a socket, wondering about that loctite thing.
Next I prepped the pistons and con rods.
Again, for a 180K miles comparison here are the big end shells, from No1 through to No4
The little ends just showed a small amount of polish on the outer edges.
Everything nicely cleaned, I then gapped the rings.
Get one of these.
Saves the worry of snapping a ring.
I pushed the rings down the bore a bit with a piston head.
All the gaps were spot on the smaller tolerance size stipulated in the manual. Guess Colben Schmidt produce accurate gear. EDIT - The machine shop must have bored it to +040 accurately too!
Assembly lubed the gudgeon pins and the piston bearing points and the little end bushes. The new gudgeon pins slid in beautifully, once they were lined up perfectly parallel to the hole in the piston. Carefully fitted the circlips and made sure they were housed in the grooves properly.
Forgot to take pictures, but hands were incredibly sticky with assembly lube. Sorry, neilly
Got the ring compressor on and cleaned bores and lubed them up.
Lubed the new shells in the big end caps and fitted them, again just hand tight with a socket.
Worth noting that my con rods and caps were stamped with numbers 1 to 4 and so I could fit them in the right order and the correct way around. Check your con rods and caps are marked, if not mark them yourself so that they can be fitted as they came off.
All pistons in.
It was half seven by now and so tidied up as I was getting peckish I'll measure the piston stand up tomorrow. Hopefully, it will be standard.
Finally, the oil scraper ring spring looks like this when you pull it apart.
The inner wire just pushes inside the coil spring and you push it together. there's no bent end on the middle wire.
This has taken me all day! I'm no Aaron Morris
Set about prepping the bottom end this morning.
Cleaned stuff down including the bolt holes to make them 'clean and dry'.
Blue towel roll carefully twisted down each hole.
Did the same with the oil jet tubes
Cleaned the oil jet tubes down, blew through them to check they were clear and then checked the non return valves with some strimmer line
Bolted the squirt tubes in. The manual says replace the seals, but mine did not have any when I took them out and there are non in the bottom end gasket kit I bought.Does anyone know if there should be some?
I'd taken a picture of their position and kept them in cylinder order. However, they are dowelled which locates their position so if you mix them up you can't go far wrong.
Then fitted the main shells and lubed them up with assembly lube.
Lubricated the new thrust bearings.
Fitted them grooved side outwards!
Got my son to help me carefully lower the crank in. Bolts and arms of the engine stand stopped the crank from going in! I must have bolted it up differently when it came back from the machine shop.
Put one of those adjustable stools under it and wound it up to take the weight of the block. Then disconnected the top two engine stand bolts.
Lowered the crank in.
Thought I'd put a picture of the main cap shells, as a point of reference for others. This is at 180K miles
1, 2 and 3 look great. 4 has a thin line running down the centre with a little zig zag at the top. 5 has a thin line just left of centre and is 'polished' to one side.
TBH I think they are pretty good given No4 piston top was melting and molten alloy was being scraped down the bores. Side of No4 piston wasn't great
Started fitting the seals in to main cap No5. This is a PITA cos they are a VERY tight fit.
You can't lie them in place and push them in because there is too much resistance over the whole thing.
I decided to do it bit by bot at an angle like this.
As per manual I'd lightly lubed them with new engine oil.
You have to push the sides in with a blunt screwdriver as you work it in.
Job done
Once both sides were done it was even worse to fit the cap in to the end of the block
You can get 'seal guides' special tool LRT-12-035 if you are doing this I would recommend getting them. They are two steel plates with an angle on them, they bolt in to two of the sump bolt holes and the have an angle that 'funnels' the seal in to the block.
I had to improvise
I got it started by doing the same at an angle thing to get it started.
I used an old, blunt wood chisel and used the angle of the blade to 'funnel it in'.
I held the chisel with my left hand, pushed the chisel with my stomach and tapped the cap a few times lightly with a rubber mallet. Then went around to the other side to do the same. It went in fraction of a mm at a time and took an ABSOLUTE AGE. Get the special tool!
As the cap gets close to the bottom you need to make sure the inner part of the seal is locating properly. Blunt screwdriver again.
Look at how much of the seal sticks out now! Scroll up and compare it to the first picture.
Fitted the rest of the main caps and just hand tightened them with a socket, wondering about that loctite thing.
Next I prepped the pistons and con rods.
Again, for a 180K miles comparison here are the big end shells, from No1 through to No4
The little ends just showed a small amount of polish on the outer edges.
Everything nicely cleaned, I then gapped the rings.
Get one of these.
Saves the worry of snapping a ring.
I pushed the rings down the bore a bit with a piston head.
All the gaps were spot on the smaller tolerance size stipulated in the manual. Guess Colben Schmidt produce accurate gear.
EDIT - The machine shop must have bored it to +040 accurately too!Assembly lubed the gudgeon pins and the piston bearing points and the little end bushes. The new gudgeon pins slid in beautifully, once they were lined up perfectly parallel to the hole in the piston. Carefully fitted the circlips and made sure they were housed in the grooves properly.
Forgot to take pictures, but hands were incredibly sticky with assembly lube. Sorry, neilly
Got the ring compressor on and cleaned bores and lubed them up.
Lubed the new shells in the big end caps and fitted them, again just hand tight with a socket.
Worth noting that my con rods and caps were stamped with numbers 1 to 4 and so I could fit them in the right order and the correct way around. Check your con rods and caps are marked, if not mark them yourself so that they can be fitted as they came off.
All pistons in.
It was half seven by now and so tidied up as I was getting peckish
I'll measure the piston stand up tomorrow. Hopefully, it will be standard.Finally, the oil scraper ring spring looks like this when you pull it apart.
The inner wire just pushes inside the coil spring and you push it together. there's no bent end on the middle wire.
This has taken me all day! I'm no Aaron Morris
Last edited:
florncakes
Member
You may have already covered this, but make sure the gaps in your piston rings are not aligned when you put them in. You may find you wear a line in your carefully machined bore otherwise. Also, when you put the pistons in, it might be a good idea to rotate the crank so each journal is at BDC to reduce the chance of a conrod catching your journal surface (I have some experience of this going wrong!!!)
I am no expert - @jamesmartin can give better guidance - but I have not used loctite (or similar) on any main bearing cap bolts or con rod cap nuts/bolt before.....
Cheers, florncakes. Yes, I set the ring gaps equal distances apart. Should have mentioned that! I also guided the conrod through so as not to catch the journals. Many thanks.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
i allways do use loctite on conrod nuts and any internal fitting unless its like the old 2.25s were they used locking nuts or tabs
Cheers, Saint.V8. I'm just a worrier, I guess the manual would have said if it was needed. I was surprised at how easy it was to undo the main cap bolts and big end nuts when I took them apart!
Bugger !
An annoying thing is that the top end and bottom end gasket sets don't have a parts list.
This is just the contents of a little plastic bag within the full bottom end set.
No idea what many of them are for yet! Especially the copper washers, four different sizes/types! Couldn't find anything for the cylinder oil squirter tubes as per the manual. @jamesmartin , do you know if quirter tubes have two seals on each of them?
This is just the contents of a little plastic bag within the full bottom end set.
No idea what many of them are for yet! Especially the copper washers, four different sizes/types! Couldn't find anything for the cylinder oil squirter tubes as per the manual. @jamesmartin , do you know if quirter tubes have two seals on each of them?
Cheers, Saint.V8. I'm just a worrier, I guess the manual would have said if it was needed. I was surprised at how easy it was to undo the main cap bolts and big end nuts when I took them apart!
And there is the definitive.....
Thanks JM, will do from now on.
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
oil squirts have 2 slightly different sized washer each, like the 2 far right, the washer that goes on the head end needs putting on with the open end of the cup shape toward the bolt head, the other one it doesnt matter
far left bottom gasket is oil return pipe in sump
the little gasket (washer shape)fits behind the front cover
florncakes
Member
Did you get new big end and main cap bolts? If so the faces may be serrated to lock in position. If not you can easily take the bolts out, clean them and put them in with loctite.
I've never done Diesel engines, only petrol, but you might wish to consider new head bolts if your engine has had a surprise load placed on it (valve meets piston kind of surprise)
I've never done Diesel engines, only petrol, but you might wish to consider new head bolts if your engine has had a surprise load placed on it (valve meets piston kind of surprise)
No, I'm using the original big end and main cap bolts. Haven't read anywhere that new should be used. I've got a set of new head bolts ready to go on. Read everything from replace straight away to can be used 5 times. So I just bought a new set. I couldn't find my tube of loctite
. I'll look again tomorrow and if I can't find it I'll go out and buy some more. If that's them I just have enough for one squirt tube. It's a bloody nightmare
Mine did not have any on when I took them apart!
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
afu1879l and afu1887l are the washers 4 of each same squirt and bolt used on the earlier red block enginesNo, I'm using the original big end and main cap bolts. Haven't read anywhere that new should be used. I've got a set of new head bolts ready to go on. Read everything from replace straight away to can be used 5 times. So I just bought a new set. I couldn't find my tube of loctite
If that's them I just have enough for one squirt tube. It's a bloody nightmare
You've read my mind
I was just about to ask if you knew the part numbers. My local indi might be able to get them for Friday if I order them in the morning.That's an Elring full bottom end kit. Any idea why there was none on mine? Makes you wonder if it's been apart before?
