rob_bell
Well-Known Member
No! Will go off and google now!
Stretch
Well-Known Member
No! Will go off and google now!
Here's the episode I like the best so far
Like Jam1 says they are very childish - but I kind of appreciate silly antics like that
There's another pick up truck episode as well where they rescue it from a scrap yard. That would be such a cool thing to do (totally impossible in most if not all parts of Europe to do this legally of course - still would be fun).
Yeah that's a good episode. Childish I get. But the doing all that technical stuff and good fabrication but not doing the brakes bit doesn't sit well with me. Have you seen the Prius tow/trailer one? I think they were very lucky to not be facing vehicular manslaughter charges with that one, really made me cringe.
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Oh I completely glaze over when they do that. It is the same when I read about "floor pan repairs" made by coating rust in epoxy. I put it down to the whole American freedom illusion thing they've got going on. Anyway enough of that!
Have you seen AvE on the toob as well? (Seeing as we're still off on a tangent - good eh?)
I think he's a chap from Canada - incredibly rude (often shouting at the auto focus on his camera) but funny with it. Mostly does fabrication related stuff (as well as some gormless destruction which seems pointless to me)
Here's one on drilling
Stretch
Well-Known Member
What are we up to now? Partial day six on the bulkhead I think...
BULKHEAD (partial) DAY SIX
Today a few hours spent arsing about with the glovebox. I say glovebox, well on the series two, it is a curved bit of metal that holds the Werthers...
There isn't much left of the original part - I've just cut most of the remains away from the bulkhead - so the challenge is, starting with a flat sheet of 1mm thick Zincor make something that is going to replace the remnants in my left hand in this picture =>
(The door stay tube is to be ground way and re-used so ignore that bit in the picture above - that isn't being made)
Using the bench top folding machine I got:
...jury is still out on the value of this thing. Sure it has had value in the way that I haven't had to make one myself. Is it long enough? Nope - will it ever be long enough? Probably not. Is it strong enough? Nope. Will it ever be strong enough for all of the mad things I'd like to do? Nope. Dunno really - not as impressive as the much much cheaper vice mounted bending jaws...
Still it does produce nice straight bends =>
(The eagle eyed amongst you will see that the bit I bent is slightly larger than the original - bollocks - need to "fettle it back a bit later on")
Toolstation 'ad a special offer - more often than not I'm a sucker for a special offer - this time a mark on anything pen.
Nice.
Marking masking tape to calculate the depth of the glove box
Marked / measured at two places to allow...
...a comparison - nice to know that there's some checking / comfort happening eh? (Especially after bending the first bit a bit too wide - bugger!)
After marking out the required depth - trimming with the hand shears as usual
Another end bent =>
Now for the tricky bit.
Putting in the curved bit.
Not easy to make really nice when bending by hand =>
(Note the importance of having two rigid ends to this bit before attempting the hand bending. In my experience if you don't have the rigid ends the hand bending tends to encourage ¨hand dimpling¨ effects. Rigid restraints - this time in the form of bent edges - helps reduce these cock ups and helps encourage the bend along the length required)
Still it almost came good.
You can see some flat edges within the bend. Not ideal.
It is what I call ¨almost OK¨ - I´m not happy with it so I have to come up with a cunning plan.
So far I have:
Option 1: Start again and make the curved part first with either newly bought rollers (that I don't really want to own) or pay someone else to put in a curve for me (oh how I hate to pay someone for something I should be able to do myself!)
Option 2: Finish off building that English Wheel I've been promising myself for the last five years...
BULKHEAD (partial) DAY SIX
Today a few hours spent arsing about with the glovebox. I say glovebox, well on the series two, it is a curved bit of metal that holds the Werthers...
There isn't much left of the original part - I've just cut most of the remains away from the bulkhead - so the challenge is, starting with a flat sheet of 1mm thick Zincor make something that is going to replace the remnants in my left hand in this picture =>
(The door stay tube is to be ground way and re-used so ignore that bit in the picture above - that isn't being made)
Using the bench top folding machine I got:
...jury is still out on the value of this thing. Sure it has had value in the way that I haven't had to make one myself. Is it long enough? Nope - will it ever be long enough? Probably not. Is it strong enough? Nope. Will it ever be strong enough for all of the mad things I'd like to do? Nope. Dunno really - not as impressive as the much much cheaper vice mounted bending jaws...
Still it does produce nice straight bends =>
(The eagle eyed amongst you will see that the bit I bent is slightly larger than the original - bollocks - need to "fettle it back a bit later on")
Toolstation 'ad a special offer - more often than not I'm a sucker for a special offer - this time a mark on anything pen.
Nice.
Marking masking tape to calculate the depth of the glove box
Marked / measured at two places to allow...
...a comparison - nice to know that there's some checking / comfort happening eh? (Especially after bending the first bit a bit too wide - bugger!)
After marking out the required depth - trimming with the hand shears as usual
Another end bent =>
Now for the tricky bit.
Putting in the curved bit.
Not easy to make really nice when bending by hand =>
(Note the importance of having two rigid ends to this bit before attempting the hand bending. In my experience if you don't have the rigid ends the hand bending tends to encourage ¨hand dimpling¨ effects. Rigid restraints - this time in the form of bent edges - helps reduce these cock ups and helps encourage the bend along the length required)
Still it almost came good.
You can see some flat edges within the bend. Not ideal.
It is what I call ¨almost OK¨ - I´m not happy with it so I have to come up with a cunning plan.
So far I have:
Option 1: Start again and make the curved part first with either newly bought rollers (that I don't really want to own) or pay someone else to put in a curve for me (oh how I hate to pay someone for something I should be able to do myself!)
Option 2: Finish off building that English Wheel I've been promising myself for the last five years...
Stretch
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that's true - but hey - I can do art - just look at some of those holes I made!
Seriously though, the I've been lusting after an English Wheel for ages. I bought the top wheel and a set of lower anvils ages ago. I "just" need to make up a frame and Bob's me auntie
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Well guess what happened?
Papa got a brand new bag.
New toy alert!
Chinky-cheapo (as the Italians might say) bead roller bought from my favourite overseas importer. It seems to be similar to the "Harbor Freight" stuff that is mentioned a lot on the internet.
Aside:- For those who don't know Harbor Freight is a cheapo place for tools in the US of A. They are not known for quality (although now they seem to be targeting more established brands such as Snap On with cheaper alternatives that are meant to be of as good quality). Anyway, 'cos it is American (and the English speaking part of the internet is dominated by this country) then you'll see lots of references to this company - lots of modifications and tricks to make some of their offerings are available to view on the toob.
This =>
Seems like the first modification I'll make to the new toy.
Oh yes! Yet another wonderful tangent to explore!
I'm already planning to make new dies...
Kind of makes me wish I had a lathe...
Papa got a brand new bag.
New toy alert!
Chinky-cheapo (as the Italians might say) bead roller bought from my favourite overseas importer. It seems to be similar to the "Harbor Freight" stuff that is mentioned a lot on the internet.
Aside:- For those who don't know Harbor Freight is a cheapo place for tools in the US of A. They are not known for quality (although now they seem to be targeting more established brands such as Snap On with cheaper alternatives that are meant to be of as good quality). Anyway, 'cos it is American (and the English speaking part of the internet is dominated by this country) then you'll see lots of references to this company - lots of modifications and tricks to make some of their offerings are available to view on the toob.
This =>
Seems like the first modification I'll make to the new toy.
Oh yes! Yet another wonderful tangent to explore!
I'm already planning to make new dies...
Kind of makes me wish I had a lathe...
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Warm enough to do paint stripping in the shade today. (Sounds a bit mad but paint stripping with POR strip water based stuff in direct sunlight causes trouble when the stripper dries out too quickly)
(And yes - I'm still messing about with paint removal and such - keep on finding more bits!)
The main reason for showing this (slow) progress was to ask those in the know about sound insulation under the seat box.
The middle cover for the seat box has / had a load of bitumen goo on the underside. There's a possibility that, that was someone thinking it was good for rust proofing (and didn't realise it was Birmabright), or there's another reason I can think of which is that Land Rover originally fitted sound deadening material here...
...anyone seen that before? I can't find mention of it in the Jame Taylor book.
Asking the question here too
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/sound-insulation-under-seat-box-covers.315454/
(And yes - I'm still messing about with paint removal and such - keep on finding more bits!)
The main reason for showing this (slow) progress was to ask those in the know about sound insulation under the seat box.
The middle cover for the seat box has / had a load of bitumen goo on the underside. There's a possibility that, that was someone thinking it was good for rust proofing (and didn't realise it was Birmabright), or there's another reason I can think of which is that Land Rover originally fitted sound deadening material here...
...anyone seen that before? I can't find mention of it in the Jame Taylor book.
Asking the question here too
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/sound-insulation-under-seat-box-covers.315454/
Last edited:
Chris Hebden
New Member
What an incredible build thread! Would happily give up another 5 lunch breaks to read this again! Amazing skills, balls and ability! In total awe
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Wow someone reading internet forums during a lunch break: I get the impression for most people forum activity is strictly done in the boss's time!
Thanks for the praise - though the main reason why I'm keeping this thread going is to encourage others to do the same. If you can lay down good stick / arc / MMA welds I'm sure you have the ability to do something similar. Give into the dark side: Let the shed geek within blossom...
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Oh such little time! Today I only had a bit of a play with the new bead roller. Just enough time to write up a product review.
I'm not sure if it was the most ethical purchase I have made =>
(What are those far eastern buggers doing? Are they out of their tiny minds? Surely it can't be economically viable to grind up protestants and smear them over machine parts? Bloody nutters...)
Anyway - here it is in all of its (Rust free! But at what costs?) blue glory. I wisely decided not to pay for the stand.
It is a simple enough machine - you wind the 'andle and jab some sheet metal between the rollers and hey presto you end up making controlled / customised dents in it.
The rollers are on the left hand side of the machine as shown in the picture below.
Although it might not be clear looking at the pictures so far there's a gap between two shafts so you can make the shapes in sheet metal quite a way into the sheet: You can jab the sheet in quite a way.
The rollers are tensioned by a screw on the top roller's shaft.
The rollers are stopped from spinning on the shafts with crappy little (M6?) grub screws. The posher versions of these machines use splined shafts / square shafts etc.
#######
I'm only really interested in the joggle / step formation abilities at the moment (and only had the time to try them)
Unfortunately out of the box when fitted there is no axial clearance between the step rollers when you fit them.
There's no way you'll end up with nicely shaped step in your sheet metal if you can't fit it through the rollers.
So out of the box: IT WON'T WORK!
The upper shaft has a simple step on it which is "exactly" the length of each die. So the upper shaft die is fixed.
The lower shaft die has more space to move on the shaft so you can adjust it.
In this case a simple addition of a M10 washer under the head of the fixing screw was the quick solution.
Tightening up the grub screws once the die position was set =>
So now I've got a bit of a gap to let the material run between the rollers (!) - Blinking heck - simple requirement - should have been thought about before the machine was made
First go through the rollers with a bit of scrap.
Compared with the hammering over a hammer form (with rivet gun) method explained a few posts back and I can't see much of a difference.
########
So was the bead roller machine worth the 150 euros I paid for it? (Warning this is a good price for this type of machine - I have seen similar stuff for sale on ebay with asking prices getting on for 300 quid!)
No not really - not if I expected it to work straight out of the box. It is just as well I bought it for another reason (to be shown / explained later).
The frame is well wobbly - just meshing the cogs via the drive handle one way or the other (no tension on the rollers) makes the top part of the frame move 2 - 3 mm! So that modification shown in the video a few posts back is necessary.
So it is not so cheap (when you think about it) crap that really should be reported to trading standards.
I give it a score of 2 out of 10 (based on its intended design / purpose and immediate usability)
I'm now going to have to source M10 shim washers and probably some M22 washers as well to pad out the other side of the die for different shapes (for ****'s sake)
I'm not sure if it was the most ethical purchase I have made =>
(What are those far eastern buggers doing? Are they out of their tiny minds? Surely it can't be economically viable to grind up protestants and smear them over machine parts? Bloody nutters...)
Anyway - here it is in all of its (Rust free! But at what costs?) blue glory. I wisely decided not to pay for the stand.
It is a simple enough machine - you wind the 'andle and jab some sheet metal between the rollers and hey presto you end up making controlled / customised dents in it.
The rollers are on the left hand side of the machine as shown in the picture below.
Although it might not be clear looking at the pictures so far there's a gap between two shafts so you can make the shapes in sheet metal quite a way into the sheet: You can jab the sheet in quite a way.
The rollers are tensioned by a screw on the top roller's shaft.
The rollers are stopped from spinning on the shafts with crappy little (M6?) grub screws. The posher versions of these machines use splined shafts / square shafts etc.
#######
I'm only really interested in the joggle / step formation abilities at the moment (and only had the time to try them)
Unfortunately out of the box when fitted there is no axial clearance between the step rollers when you fit them.
There's no way you'll end up with nicely shaped step in your sheet metal if you can't fit it through the rollers.
So out of the box: IT WON'T WORK!
The upper shaft has a simple step on it which is "exactly" the length of each die. So the upper shaft die is fixed.
The lower shaft die has more space to move on the shaft so you can adjust it.
In this case a simple addition of a M10 washer under the head of the fixing screw was the quick solution.
Tightening up the grub screws once the die position was set =>
So now I've got a bit of a gap to let the material run between the rollers (!) - Blinking heck - simple requirement - should have been thought about before the machine was made
First go through the rollers with a bit of scrap.
Compared with the hammering over a hammer form (with rivet gun) method explained a few posts back and I can't see much of a difference.
########
So was the bead roller machine worth the 150 euros I paid for it? (Warning this is a good price for this type of machine - I have seen similar stuff for sale on ebay with asking prices getting on for 300 quid!)
No not really - not if I expected it to work straight out of the box. It is just as well I bought it for another reason (to be shown / explained later).
The frame is well wobbly - just meshing the cogs via the drive handle one way or the other (no tension on the rollers) makes the top part of the frame move 2 - 3 mm! So that modification shown in the video a few posts back is necessary.
So it is not so cheap (when you think about it) crap that really should be reported to trading standards.
I give it a score of 2 out of 10 (based on its intended design / purpose and immediate usability)
I'm now going to have to source M10 shim washers and probably some M22 washers as well to pad out the other side of the die for different shapes (for ****'s sake)
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I can think of quite a few protestants hereabouts that should have just that done to them.
They're the bloody nutters!!! And that's coming from someone on the same side of the fence as them.
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Ahhh - I did think of you when I first read the instructions and it made me wonder...I can think of quite a few protestants hereabouts that should have just that done to them.
And that's coming from someone on the same side of the fence as them.
...you know what? I never used to read instructions - I was a real bloke - but now they are often just too funny to pass up. Meer aften dan nit they're's a reel jim in daar...
Stretch
Well-Known Member
And now for something completely different.
Painting.
Painting tips - warts and all.
It is very easy to make slightly out of focus distance pictures of new paint jobs and hope for a few likes / pats on the back - not many people want to admit to the cock ups and the messes that are occurring
So 'ere goes. This is what I've been up to for ages. I've stopped for a long time 'cos of the winter and it being too cold to paint and now I'm slowly getting back into it. To be honest I don't enjoy it. Painting is a pain in the arse. For me ('cos I'm not that experienced) it is a slow process of correcting mistake or problem after problem.
#######
One of the things that you hear about on the internet is that you can't expect a decent paint job from rattle / spray cans. Yeah well - I think there's an element of truth to that but applying the paint, I believe, is a tiny part of making something look nice. Preparation (as you'll also see all over the interweb) is the key.
All of the painting in this post (so not necessarily in this thread - note difference between post and thread!) has been done with spray cans.
#######
Before I launch into the cock ups and an explanation of what I've been up to, I think it is worth setting the tone for the work I have done by explaining something that I think gets missed from the numerous painting tips in books and on the interweb:-
If you want something to be shiny - to be polished - then the surface onto which you are painting needs to be smooth. Polishing (which arguably is the last stage of a paint job - although some people skip this final stage) is all about surface removal. You have to remove the surface (albeit in a controlled way) - you almost have to "kill it" to get a nice smooth "mirror finish". It is the extreme "flatness" / "smoothness" that makes the surface shine. The only way to get a surface like that (on your existing parts) is to sand and fill and sand and fill and sand and sand and sand...
#########
Well I said I'd show you all a cock up - it doesn't get much worse than this!
This is a downside to using aerosols / rattle cans / spray cans. Different systems do not always mix!
Shopping on the internet doesn't help: You buy something and start using it - you run out of it - you pop down the shops - pay more than it would be on the internet - use it and find there's a nasty reaction that means you have to strip the whole thing back down to metal again...
...UG!
########
So back to the sanding. First tip: Your hand isn't flat! Try and remember to use sanding blocks!
There are lots of different gucci shaped things out there to help you make a decent flat and curved surface.
Next tip with using aerosols / rattle cans / spray cans. The often read "tip the can upside down and spray nozzle clear after use" instruction is utter bollocks. In my experience, 9 times out of 10 this won't work for for the lifespan of the can. I leave my spray can nozzles soaking in a jar of thinner =>
After spraying I always clean the top of the can with brake cleaner - and I blast the nozzle through with the stuff too...
...keeping nozzles clean and crap free is really important when you are using spray cans.
When using spray cans, after the first two squirts you are fighting a losing battle.
Expanding gas - the gas used in the can to push the paint out - is making everything colder. As you spray - you are making the can colder. The longer you spray, not only does the pressure in the can reduce because you've just let most of it out, it also reduces because the whole "environment" within the can is colder. Despite warnings about not leaving cans in sunlight (which should be taken seriously) using things like radiators and baby bottle warmers to keep your spray can closer to the recommended operating temperature (usually 20 degrees C - read can!) is not such a bad thing to do.
Not only is painting in the cold asking for trouble - but painting with cold paint causes trouble too!
########
Next up: Layers.
The layers I am using for my wheels are - Hammerite rust preventing goo - very difficult to spray when even slightly cold (utter bugger should have chosen something else) - "Big filler" - Spray filler / primer - colour coat (normal car paint) - super tough clear varnish (not shown in this post).
#########
Two rough approaches to using filler =>
I have to put my hand up and say despite my vague attempts at art - I am not an artist - I can not sculpt filler as shown in "Method A" in the picture above and end up with a smooth non undulating surface. I do Method B...
...well I aim to do method B...
...sometimes I put on too much filler =>
This exuberance immediately bites you on the backside. You will then spend ages removing what you put on!
Note: At this stage I'm using cheap - on a roll - nasty aggressive - use it in the dry sand paper. Because this is steel (don't do this on aluminium!), I don't really care - I want to sand back down to the peaks (see method B above) and leave the "big filler" behind more or less in the craters.
Oh boy! That was indeed too much filler
Eventually you can see the craters are filled (!)
Cos I'm left with a partially rust proofed wheel I of course need to go back a stage again and spray more of the Hammerite rust proofing goo
(Ever decreasing circles - sorry no more time for yet another British comedy link)
...and even when you are sure you think you sanded something properly it is only when you get some colour on there that you see more cock ups...
Tip for using rust proofing goo.
Nearly all of the systems I have tried (and I've tried a few) involve a waiting time of 24 hours at 20 degrees C before the next coat can be applied. This is a nightmare. But if you don't wait - and keep the thing you are painting warm, clean and dry whilst it is curing - you will be kicking yourself. You could end up with results shown in the first picture shown above!
########
Eventually after a fair amount of ****ing about with spray cans and sand paper I get it to a stage where "little filler" can be used.
Little filler (much like big filler actually) is soft. Really nice and soft, especially when you wet sand it.
Wet sanding is fun! Get decent paper though. This 3M stuff lasts a really long time if you wash it clean once in a while.
Cheaper stuff (yeah try it and see for yourself) tends to disintegrate, rip and clog =>
#########
After wet sanding you will probably find that (horrors of horrors) you've had to "go too far" and you've gone through back to the bare metal. At this point there is no effing way I'm going to start off with that rust proofing goo again! If it is only a small bit I'll dust the surface with a quick spray of self etching primer and move to the next stage...
(Life is just too short!)
Next tip - cleanliness - wipe away sludge when wet sanding. I use old polishing cloths that have been washed.
Eventually with a bit of patience I can get the results shown below =>
This is the first coat of colour of one of the wheels. You can see slight blurry shapes in the reflections in the paint. These will be improved in the next stages. First I need to apply the super tough top coat I've got and see how that reacts to polishing...
EDIT:- This isn't a full "how to" type of a post. I've avoided the spray in short spurts - apply the paint evenly advice. It is still valid advice but I reckon after a bit of practice that kind of advice becomes apparent...
Painting.
Painting tips - warts and all.
It is very easy to make slightly out of focus distance pictures of new paint jobs and hope for a few likes / pats on the back - not many people want to admit to the cock ups and the messes that are occurring
So 'ere goes. This is what I've been up to for ages. I've stopped for a long time 'cos of the winter and it being too cold to paint and now I'm slowly getting back into it. To be honest I don't enjoy it. Painting is a pain in the arse. For me ('cos I'm not that experienced) it is a slow process of correcting mistake or problem after problem.
#######
One of the things that you hear about on the internet is that you can't expect a decent paint job from rattle / spray cans. Yeah well - I think there's an element of truth to that but applying the paint, I believe, is a tiny part of making something look nice. Preparation (as you'll also see all over the interweb) is the key.
All of the painting in this post (so not necessarily in this thread - note difference between post and thread!) has been done with spray cans.
#######
Before I launch into the cock ups and an explanation of what I've been up to, I think it is worth setting the tone for the work I have done by explaining something that I think gets missed from the numerous painting tips in books and on the interweb:-
If you want something to be shiny - to be polished - then the surface onto which you are painting needs to be smooth. Polishing (which arguably is the last stage of a paint job - although some people skip this final stage) is all about surface removal. You have to remove the surface (albeit in a controlled way) - you almost have to "kill it" to get a nice smooth "mirror finish". It is the extreme "flatness" / "smoothness" that makes the surface shine. The only way to get a surface like that (on your existing parts) is to sand and fill and sand and fill and sand and sand and sand...
#########
Well I said I'd show you all a cock up - it doesn't get much worse than this!
This is a downside to using aerosols / rattle cans / spray cans. Different systems do not always mix!
Shopping on the internet doesn't help: You buy something and start using it - you run out of it - you pop down the shops - pay more than it would be on the internet - use it and find there's a nasty reaction that means you have to strip the whole thing back down to metal again...
...UG!
########
So back to the sanding. First tip: Your hand isn't flat! Try and remember to use sanding blocks!
There are lots of different gucci shaped things out there to help you make a decent flat and curved surface.
Next tip with using aerosols / rattle cans / spray cans. The often read "tip the can upside down and spray nozzle clear after use" instruction is utter bollocks. In my experience, 9 times out of 10 this won't work for for the lifespan of the can. I leave my spray can nozzles soaking in a jar of thinner =>
After spraying I always clean the top of the can with brake cleaner - and I blast the nozzle through with the stuff too...
...keeping nozzles clean and crap free is really important when you are using spray cans.
When using spray cans, after the first two squirts you are fighting a losing battle.
Expanding gas - the gas used in the can to push the paint out - is making everything colder. As you spray - you are making the can colder. The longer you spray, not only does the pressure in the can reduce because you've just let most of it out, it also reduces because the whole "environment" within the can is colder. Despite warnings about not leaving cans in sunlight (which should be taken seriously) using things like radiators and baby bottle warmers to keep your spray can closer to the recommended operating temperature (usually 20 degrees C - read can!) is not such a bad thing to do.
Not only is painting in the cold asking for trouble - but painting with cold paint causes trouble too!
########
Next up: Layers.
The layers I am using for my wheels are - Hammerite rust preventing goo - very difficult to spray when even slightly cold (utter bugger should have chosen something else) - "Big filler" - Spray filler / primer - colour coat (normal car paint) - super tough clear varnish (not shown in this post).
#########
Two rough approaches to using filler =>
I have to put my hand up and say despite my vague attempts at art - I am not an artist - I can not sculpt filler as shown in "Method A" in the picture above and end up with a smooth non undulating surface. I do Method B...
...well I aim to do method B...
...sometimes I put on too much filler =>
This exuberance immediately bites you on the backside. You will then spend ages removing what you put on!
Note: At this stage I'm using cheap - on a roll - nasty aggressive - use it in the dry sand paper. Because this is steel (don't do this on aluminium!), I don't really care - I want to sand back down to the peaks (see method B above) and leave the "big filler" behind more or less in the craters.
Oh boy! That was indeed too much filler
Eventually you can see the craters are filled (!)
Cos I'm left with a partially rust proofed wheel I of course need to go back a stage again and spray more of the Hammerite rust proofing goo
(Ever decreasing circles - sorry no more time for yet another British comedy link)
...and even when you are sure you think you sanded something properly it is only when you get some colour on there that you see more cock ups...
Tip for using rust proofing goo.
Nearly all of the systems I have tried (and I've tried a few) involve a waiting time of 24 hours at 20 degrees C before the next coat can be applied. This is a nightmare. But if you don't wait - and keep the thing you are painting warm, clean and dry whilst it is curing - you will be kicking yourself. You could end up with results shown in the first picture shown above!
########
Eventually after a fair amount of ****ing about with spray cans and sand paper I get it to a stage where "little filler" can be used.
Little filler (much like big filler actually) is soft. Really nice and soft, especially when you wet sand it.
Wet sanding is fun! Get decent paper though. This 3M stuff lasts a really long time if you wash it clean once in a while.
Cheaper stuff (yeah try it and see for yourself) tends to disintegrate, rip and clog =>
#########
After wet sanding you will probably find that (horrors of horrors) you've had to "go too far" and you've gone through back to the bare metal. At this point there is no effing way I'm going to start off with that rust proofing goo again! If it is only a small bit I'll dust the surface with a quick spray of self etching primer and move to the next stage...
(Life is just too short!)
Next tip - cleanliness - wipe away sludge when wet sanding. I use old polishing cloths that have been washed.
Eventually with a bit of patience I can get the results shown below =>
This is the first coat of colour of one of the wheels. You can see slight blurry shapes in the reflections in the paint. These will be improved in the next stages. First I need to apply the super tough top coat I've got and see how that reacts to polishing...
EDIT:- This isn't a full "how to" type of a post. I've avoided the spray in short spurts - apply the paint evenly advice. It is still valid advice but I reckon after a bit of practice that kind of advice becomes apparent...
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Alibro
Well-Known Member
Are you going to lacquer them? I've found it's only after you spray the lacquer that you really see the cockups! Any imperfections seem to be OK when undercoat is applied, not too bad when top coat is applied and "FFFFS!!!!! I'm gonna have to start again from scratch" when lacquered.
Last one I did I spent over a week preping (I really am that slow) but it paid off with a pretty good job. I tried using rattle can lacquer on one small part but quickly changed my mind and got out the air spray gun. I'm always nervous of using it cause I'm I don't do it that often but this time I was glad I did. I used 2K lacquer with no thinners mixed in and got the best results I've ever had.
I'd call it a 2 pace paint job, previous attempts have ranged from 4 pace to don't even bother.
Last one I did I spent over a week preping (I really am that slow) but it paid off with a pretty good job. I tried using rattle can lacquer on one small part but quickly changed my mind and got out the air spray gun. I'm always nervous of using it cause I'm I don't do it that often but this time I was glad I did. I used 2K lacquer with no thinners mixed in and got the best results I've ever had.
I'd call it a 2 pace paint job, previous attempts have ranged from 4 pace to don't even bother.
Stretch
Well-Known Member
Oh I completely agree about "seeing things" as you go along - especially as the colour goes on.
"They" now have stuff called "control spray" that is meant to help with the sanding process, but I haven't tried it yet.
I will be applying a lacquer / clear coat / varnish =>
It is meant to be quite good stuff. Difficult to tell until you try these things yourself, though many people seem to think "2K" or bust. (This could be internet hype though). The health related dangers to DIY-ing with 2K paints goes up a bit though (read the health and safety stuff - almost on par with welding galvanised surfaces!)
For me, wet sanding has been the secret to ending up with fewer surprises when the top coats go on. That's why I did that bit about "almost killing" the surface in order to get the finish you want. You have to sand it.
When I first started this malarkey I was trying to make scratches on cars better. I think (perhaps like others) after you've done your first swipes with the sand paper and seen how much paint you can remove if you are not careful you get scared. This, for me, made me very cautious - overly cautious when it came to other jobs. It is definitely a case of "treat 'em mean keep 'em keen" - you have to be rough - you have to sand it away to make it shiny: But after spending far too much time going back and repainting I learnt to 1) Use a sanding block, 2) wet sand with varying degrees of paper (going from coarser to fine of course).
(In the case of roughly sand blasted Land Rover wheels with sodding great big craters in them of course you need to fill the craters first before you get to the wet sanding stage)
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I know about the dangers of 2K but always wear a good mask and since I don't do it very often I don't worry too much. I figure If I can't smell the stuff through the mask I'm not in too much danger but like I said I don't take anything for granted.
The nice thing about using a spray gun is the paint is thicker so goes on with much less orange peel, therefore less wet sanding with 2000 grit and mopping afterwards.
Like you say though, the prep is everything.
The nice thing about using a spray gun is the paint is thicker so goes on with much less orange peel, therefore less wet sanding with 2000 grit and mopping afterwards.
Like you say though, the prep is everything.
