mick the builder · Dec 5, 2021

Hi stretch, I've just come upon your thread re home insulation. I did this for 6 years for a company over here in Ireland. Air tightness is a big thing over here now and retro fitting is extremely difficult to get good results. The majority of draughts occur around windows doors and electrical switches. If you have a two storey house, then massive draughts come in where the joists are built into the wall.
We used to remove all sockets and mastic where cables come exit the trunking, pull up floorboards and tape around every joist end. Remove window cills and tape between frame and inside brickwork including sides and head. All this airtightness required air vents in every habitable room be it window trickle vents or wall vents adding up to x amount of square inches of open vent per room.( sort of defeated the purpose of airtightness) the alternative to vents were air recovery systems to supply warm fresh air and removing stale damp air. There is minimal heat gain from these systems so additional heating is required, as you know. All the ducting was wrapped in multi layered foil blanket and ally tape.

BikerB · Dec 6, 2021

Stretch said:
Well I hope I manage to get something to work a bit better than that! In a domestic setting it would be like having an airco unit fighting with the heating - it would be like blowing air out of a fridge into your living space...

...having never experienced these systems myself I find it hard to see how anyone would be able to market these systems if they performed like that - still - more research needed.

6 "P"s again

Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance

(hopefully)

I think you may have misunderstood my post as heat recovery reduces your heating bill by preheating the air and reduces the amount of new energy required to bring the air up to temp.
Don't get me starting on air con conflicting with tempered air heating systems. In industry this is a massive problem where poorly installed and set up air con can end up fighting the heated tempered air with both systems fighting to heat or cool directly against each other.
However this should not be applicable to your setting

Stretch · Dec 6, 2021

mick the builder said:
Hi stretch, I've just come upon your thread re home insulation. I did this for 6 years for a company over here in Ireland. Air tightness is a big thing over here now and retro fitting is extremely difficult to get good results. The majority of draughts occur around windows doors and electrical switches. If you have a two storey house, then massive draughts come in where the joists are built into the wall.
We used to remove all sockets and mastic where cables come exit the trunking, pull up floorboards and tape around every joist end. Remove window cills and tape between frame and inside brickwork including sides and head. All this airtightness required air vents in every habitable room be it window trickle vents or wall vents adding up to x amount of square inches of open vent per room.( sort of defeated the purpose of airtightness) the alternative to vents were air recovery systems to supply warm fresh air and removing stale damp air. There is minimal heat gain from these systems so additional heating is required, as you know. All the ducting was wrapped in multi layered foil blanket and ally tape.

Cheers Mick - nice one - thanks for the information

My house here in the Netherlands was built a bit differently from the way in which houses of a similar vintage are built in England (and I assume from what you say how they are built in Ireland). My house along with the surrounding area is built in a heap of reclaimed sand so they have drilled piles into the ground. On top of the piles / posts there is a reinforced concrete ring running around the perimeter of the building and at several points across the bottom of the building. The construction continues this theme with a combination of (engineerd) brick, steel reinforcing and concrete...

...it has weird things like reinforced concrete balconies and jutting out upper window "ledges". Essentially, when the building was built there was no consideration for insulation. The second level floor is also concrete but money was saved with a wooden joist structure for the loft and the roof. It does have the "Scottish" boarded out roof structure which is better than some houses I've seen in England where you can see roofing felt (if you are lucky) from the inside of the loft.

So far I've been busy insulating downstairs. I've gained access to the cavity in the cavity walls by removing internal window ledges - smashing and pulling out debris / wasp nests from the cavity and filling (by simply) tipping EPS beads into the space within.

I have had fun on windy days seeing streams of beads racing their way out of gaps in the wall!

I need to come up with a cunning plan to fill the cavity above the height of the upstairs windows but for now I'm concentrating on downstairs as that's where I'm heating.

The ventilation problem is already becoming apparent - I have a bay window under one of those concrete reinforced balconies that has no insulation. Even with the tiny amount of insulation I've added to downstairs the condensation on the underside of the balcony is a perfect breeding ground for that nasty black mould (that you really need to irradicate ASAP for health reasons). I'm only heating to 15 degrees C at the moment but it is enough to have me wiping down windows and bleaching mould...

...oh happy days!

mick the builder · Dec 6, 2021

Stretch said:
Cheers Mick - nice one - thanks for the information

My house here in the Netherlands was built a bit differently from the way in which houses of a similar vintage are built in England (and I assume from what you say how they are built in Ireland). My house along with the surrounding area is built in a heap of reclaimed sand so they have drilled piles into the ground. On top of the piles / posts there is a reinforced concrete ring running around the perimeter of the building and at several points across the bottom of the building. The construction continues this theme with a combination of (engineerd) brick, steel reinforcing and concrete...

...it has weird things like reinforced concrete balconies and jutting out upper window "ledges". Essentially, when the building was built there was no consideration for insulation. The second level floor is also concrete but money was saved with a wooden joist structure for the loft and the roof. It does have the "Scottish" boarded out roof structure which is better than some houses I've seen in England where you can see roofing felt (if you are lucky) from the inside of the loft.

So far I've been busy insulating downstairs. I've gained access to the cavity in the cavity walls by removing internal window ledges - smashing and pulling out debris / wasp nests from the cavity and filling (by simply) tipping EPS beads into the space within.

I have had fun on windy days seeing streams of beads racing their way out of gaps in the wall!

I need to come up with a cunning plan to fill the cavity above the height of the upstairs windows but for now I'm concentrating on downstairs as that's where I'm heating.

The ventilation problem is already becoming apparent - I have a bay window under one of those concrete reinforced balconies that has no insulation. Even with the tiny amount of insulation I've added to downstairs the condensation on the underside of the balcony is a perfect breeding ground for that nasty black mould (that you really need to irradicate ASAP for health reasons). I'm only heating to 15 degrees C at the moment but it is enough to have me wiping down windows and bleaching mould...

...oh happy days!

Any form of cold bridging is a nightmare to solve. Internal sheet insulation is the only answer for the co create. As you tip the bead into the cavity, it will help if you can get someone to mist spray some diluted pva from a garden sprayer. Many a time in the winter we have watched our bead filling up the loft because the glue pipe had frozen and not mixi g with the bead. Oh what fun clearing tat up, not .

Stretch · Dec 6, 2021

mick the builder said:
Any form of cold bridging is a nightmare to solve. Internal sheet insulation is the only answer for the co create. As you tip the bead into the cavity, it will help if you can get someone to mist spray some diluted pva from a garden sprayer. Many a time in the winter we have watched our bead filling up the loft because the glue pipe had frozen and not mixi g with the bead. Oh what fun clearing tat up, not .

I can imagine that's a total nightmare.

Cold bridging is indeed a big worry. The cavity gap here isn't even constant - the gap ranges from 1cm to about 5cm - it also has those silly concrete ledges bridging between the inner and outer walls. Ideally - if you were to go full-on insulation anal - you've have to demolish and rebuild the house to come up with a text book solution.

One saving grace:- Even if I had a uniform 5cm cavity gap on all of the external walls the insulation wouldn't be sufficient to remove the gas boiler and go for a heat pump solution. I've got no option but to fit extra internal insulation (as external insulation isn't possible). The plan is to fit 10cm PIR sheets then to have some sort of possibilty of mounting things on walls I'll add on some of that green (OSB-like) sheeting material I've lined on the inside of my workshop before plaster boarding / cladding.

The best I can hope from the EPS beads in the cavity is that they help stop the situation where condensation forms within the cavity. I've done a few dew point calculations and 8cm thick PIR on the inside looks like it is the breaking point - so I'm going 2cm thicker and bunging on 10cm thick PIR in the desperate hope it comes good (!)

As for the balcony - that will get external and internal insulation - along with a new floor. This isn't really a balcony - it is just an arse bit of decoration - there's no space for a gucci garden seat and table - the French doors just miss the railing - so French doors will be replaced with an effing big window so the floor level can be raised.

Stretch · Jan 1, 2022

Happy New Year - especially to those of you who have contributed to this never ending thread

Hash tag wish I could have spent this on cars =>

Wish I could have spent this on cars.jpg

That Land Rover (and the Volvo and the Mercedes) ain't ever gonna get done at this rate

100mm thick lumps of PIR insulation to go on the internal walls and under the living room floor of my house. Flipping heck.

Reason for posting is to ask if anyone here has used a particularly good glue to stick this stuff to concrete and brick walls.

I bought some "High Tack" glue that has turned out to be about as good as tooth paste at sticking things together, so that's going back to the seller, but I need a replacement (plan is to use mechanical fixings too of course cos glue don't always do what it says on the tin)

...recommendations greatly appreciated and will be considered especially if they are products of international manufacturers (such as Illbruck - Bostick - Axo Nobel etc)

[In the mean time I recently got an email from a price checking site here in NL about rising gas prices. They now expect an average house here (3500 kwh electric + 1500 cubic meters gas) to have to spend nearly 7K a year (!) ]

tony109 · Jul 3, 2022

Like your thread, Have a series 2a SW.. Safari roof vents with same problem.

Barge Pilot · Jul 4, 2022

Stretch said:
Reason for posting is to ask if anyone here has used a particularly good glue to stick this stuff to concrete and brick walls.

So sorry I missed this. I insulated our garage with PIR. I used “PUR foam” (PUR-schuim) for gaps and loose pieces in nooks & crannies. This holds well on brick and the concrete floor.

I went for PIR boards glued to OSB with alu layer in between. More expensive but less work.

I did this because tools (hand tools, saw blades) rusted like h.ll. The result is amazing. It’s a lot more comfortable in winter as well as summer, the humidity seems way lower (according to feel and a cheapo humidity gauge) and it looks a lot more organized. It’s a free standing unheated garage.

Cheers,
Barge

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