RichardSEL · Jan 6, 2019

Datatek said:
Worth checking the battery condition and the alternator output. Low volts causes all manner of problems

In the absence of my Avo 8 (movement's gone south, will be much missed) popped into Halfords for one of them thar free battery checks. Not usually a fan -- putting a high load on for a short period is a bit hit & miss IMO -- but nowadays they're using a more sophisticated Yuasa unit. The assistant switched in this Varta Blue's AHC and it did its thing giving a printed readout of: Volts (off load) 12.08V (last driven 45 mins previous), measured 620A out of 800A with a verdict of GOOD, RECHARGE. Dunno how accurate that is... But it's not disasterous

The fault's changing;
Now the "Bong!" of Gloom sounds when I remove the IGN key. Yet when I replace the key and turn to IGN on, no fault shows until engine's started.
It might be that I'm trying to divine too much from what's happening. And won't really know whether it's some computer board or other further up the electronics that's faulty or not until the sensor's changed.

What is the unit that these ABS sensors are connected too? Easily changed out? If I could reach it could at least remove plug, check it's seated properly, spray with Servisol etc.

Another L322 of similar vintage was in Halfords car park so quickly asked driver whether he could hear his compressor come on and off. He said no. But he'd just had some service there so couldn't confirm whether they do in fact audibly switch in and out with a Hummmmmm! When working that's what happens on mine

Datatek · Jan 6, 2019

RichardSEL said:
In the absence of my Avo 8 (movement's gone south, will be much missed) popped into Halfords for one of them thar free battery checks. Not usually a fan -- putting a high load on for a short period is a bit hit & miss IMO -- but nowadays they're using a more sophisticated Yuasa unit. The assistant switched in this Varta Blue's AHC and it did its thing giving a printed readout of: Volts (off load) 12.08V (last driven 45 mins previous), measured 620A out of 800A with a verdict of GOOD, RECHARGE. Dunno how accurate that is... But it's not disasterous

The fault's changing;
Now the "Bong!" of Gloom sounds when I remove the IGN key. Yet when I replace the key and turn to IGN on, no fault shows until engine's started.
It might be that I'm trying to divine too much from what's happening. And won't really know whether it's some computer board or other further up the electronics that's faulty or not until the sensor's changed.

What is the unit that these ABS sensors are connected too? Easily changed out? If I could reach it could at least remove plug, check it's seated properly, spray with Servisol etc.

Another L322 of similar vintage was in Halfords car park so quickly asked driver whether he could hear his compressor come on and off. He said no. But he'd just had some service there so couldn't confirm whether they do in fact audibly switch in and out with a Hummmmmm! When working that's what happens on mine

12.08 volts off load 45 minutes after driving? Battery is as good as flat, should have around 12.8 volts., the 620CCA also says the battery is on it's last legs.

RichardSEL · Jan 6, 2019

myfirstl322 said:
THAT is the engine oil remote filter housing, NOT an ATF fluid reservoir.
I feel it's rather important you know that, in case your tempted to a transmission OR engine oil change.

Aha, well it's with blackened oil but still retaining some light brown within it. Again when I've fixed this ATF sensor fault will have an Engine De-contamination Treatment by EDT down in Ashford. And refill with fully synthetic

myfirstl322 said:
So when you said, "that bird, I've 'ad her"......describe 'ad for us please?"
I fear her version of events may differ from yours.................a lot.

Couldn't do that. Wouldn't want you to get upset. Sorry, should'nt have mentioned it.
She's very diplomatic. Only does it for her friends. No enemies

RichardSEL · Jan 6, 2019

Dunno what a 620CCA is but I read that Yuasa MDX-627P's printout to mean that there's some 77% capacity remaining. But now you come to mention the terminal volts off load ("off load" meaning IGN off but with a door open so some interior lights on), yes would've expected at least 12½. Really will have to get another meter and see what gives as the starter motor's turning. Thanks for the heads up...

brianp38dse · Jan 6, 2019

CCA is cold cranking amps, which is what gives the starter the oomph to turn and that is low , get a battery with 1000cca 110amp hour and check what volts the alternator is putting out under load at 2k rpm.

myfirstl322 · Jan 6, 2019

RichardSEL said:
Aha, well it's with blackened oil but still retaining some light brown within it. Again when I've fixed this ATF sensor fault will have an Engine De-contamination Treatment by EDT down in Ashford. And refill with fully synthetic.
Glad to have helped. Your welcome.

Couldn't do that. Wouldn't want you to get upset. Sorry, should'nt have mentioned it.
She's very diplomatic. Only does it for her friends. No enemies
Butt hurt.....muchly.

Henry_b · Jan 6, 2019

Battery is knackered..

12.08 is flat.

12.6 is Fully charged 100%
12.4 is 50%
12.2 25%
12.0 and below is discharged,

The l322 and indeed any RR needs a fully charged battery to function..

They'll throw a hissy fit if its even slightly weak.

Saint.V8 · Jan 6, 2019

My word....maybe I should ask the mods to make post about rule number 1 a sticky.......l

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/rule-number-one.330965/

RichardSEL · Jan 7, 2019

Saint.V8 said:
My word....maybe I should ask the mods to make post about rule number 1 a sticky.......l
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/rule-number-one.330965/

Yes, especially for those who don't know that Rangee's are so delicate in the battery volts department.
Mind you, latest cars with all their electronics gubbins controlling things all seem to be a bit sensitive there.
But not this weak:
quoting Henry_b:
"12.08 is flat. 12.6 is Fully charged 100% 12.4 is 50% 12.2 25% 12.0 and below is discharged, The L322 and indeed any RR needs a fully charged battery to function.. They'll throw a hissy fit if its even slightly weak." unquote

With that readout from Halfords, they then should've set about trying to flog me a new battery then instead of saying "take it for a long run"

I've got a big 'un in the XJ8 -- three years old but Jaguar branded so dunno who made it. I'll see what Halfords report for that one prior to swapping to see if symptoms change. Better, I really should get a meter...

I come from a Navy background where all our Pb-Acid batteries were considered to have an operational specific gravity of 1.17 to 1.28 (later reduced to 1.25). That was the only safe way of ensuring per-cell capability. Can't even get into todays' cells with a hydrometer...

Saint.V8 · Jan 7, 2019

The L322's are particularly very sensitive to anything but a tip top battery charge....anything less and they will throw a wobbly.

Datatek · Jan 7, 2019

Henry_b said:
Battery is knackered..

12.08 is flat.

12.8 is Fully charged 100%
12.6 is 50%
12.4 25%
12.0 and below is discharged,

The l322 and indeed any RR needs a fully charged battery to function..

They'll throw a hissy fit if its even slightly weak.

Your figures are on the low side for lead calcium batteries so I have corrected them

RichardSEL · Jan 7, 2019

Saint.V8 said:
The L322's are particularly very sensitive to anything but a tip top battery charge....anything less and they will throw a wobbly.

Thanks again, and to Henry (and that bird

)

First time in two weeks ran the XJ8 15 miles down to Dartford for its battery check with the same Yuasa test kit: "Good Battery, Volts 12.52, Measured 764A, Rating 800A". This is a Jaguar branded that previous keeper bought from main agent but mentioned he got a trade price (no receipt seen though). He bought in mid-2016. So I dunno what manufacturer.

For anyone else benefitting from this thread: Halfords offer two replacements -- 800CCA 95AHC https://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-hb019-lead-acid-12v-car-battery-3-year-guarantee
at £113 inc VAT and fitting
or -- 900CCA 100AHC branded
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/b...sb019-silver-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee
at £132 inc VAT and fitting

I've always bought Bosch and have had good service from various eBait suppliers' wharehouse's usually up t'north. Two listed both sub-£100 inc VAT & delivery

Will revert with effect of change over

I thought there was a method of disconnecting the bonnet rods so that they could be put further back into another hole to let the bonnet stand up vertical? Or was I dreaming that? No amount of tugging seemed to free the ball catch at the bottom (body end)

gold rover · Jan 7, 2019

No amount of tugging will work , if you haven't taken the clips off.

Disco1BFG · Jan 7, 2019

Datatek said:
12.08 volts off load 45 minutes after driving? Battery is as good as flat, should have around 12.8 volts., the 620CCA also says the battery is on it's last legs.

+1 - As everyone else has mentioned too .... battery is almost certainly toast ... at least for RR usage - probably do another ten years on an old tractor

RichardSEL said:
giving a printed readout of: Volts (off load) 12.08V (last driven 45 mins previous), measured 620A out of 800A with a verdict of GOOD, RECHARGE.

There's a clue from the test machine - a big clue - if the machine thinks the battery needs recharging after you have driven it there, then either the battery is FUBAR, or your alternator needs some work .... given the additional clue of 620 -v- 800 CCA - tis probably the battery - a DC clamp meter which will put your AVO to shame can be had for about 30 piccies of the Queen off the zone of AMA

... and will test your alternator output quite nicely

And I'm not criticising AVO in anyway - I have two, both still work.... but the digital meters avoid any parallax, and are effectively so cheap that I don't care about dropping them ... I'd be heartbroken if I dropped an AVO.

brianp38dse · Jan 7, 2019

Try this for the bonnet

Henry_b · Jan 7, 2019

Datatek said:
Your figures are on the low side for lead calcium batteries so I have corrected them

cheers Data

Datatek · Jan 7, 2019

RichardSEL said:
Thanks again, and to Henry (and that bird )

First time in two weeks ran the XJ8 15 miles down to Dartford for its battery check with the same Yuasa test kit: "Good Battery, Volts 12.52, Measured 764A, Rating 800A". This is a Jaguar branded that previous keeper bought from main agent but mentioned he got a trade price (no receipt seen though). He bought in mid-2016. So I dunno what manufacturer.

For anyone else benefitting from this thread: Halfords offer two replacements -- 800CCA 95AHC https://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-hb019-lead-acid-12v-car-battery-3-year-guarantee
at £113 inc VAT and fitting
or -- 900CCA 100AHC branded
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/b...sb019-silver-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee
at £132 inc VAT and fitting

I've always bought Bosch and have had good service from various eBait suppliers' wharehouse's usually up t'north. Two listed both sub-£100 inc VAT & delivery

Will revert with effect of change over

I thought there was a method of disconnecting the bonnet rods so that they could be put further back into another hole to let the bonnet stand up vertical? Or was I dreaming that? No amount of tugging seemed to free the ball catch at the bottom (body end)

No connection, but Battery Megastore on line do a 110AH 1000CCA battery for about £90 delivered.

RichardSEL · Jan 8, 2019

Datatek said:
No connection, but Battery Megastore on line do a 110AH 1000CCA battery for about £90 delivered.

Got back home and there was an email wanting to buy my XJ8 -- so that took care of yesterday...

Thanks for the info. Meantime back in the Rangee funny farm, went down to Dartford on motorway this morning, and sprung for one of them thar new Yuasa 900CCA 100AHC. A young fellamelad from Halfords fitted it without having to move bonnet to full vertical.
Drove back to Crayford and the Bong! of Gloom sounded, same fault.
Parked up in Crayford for about an hour, then got as far back along the A102 as Greenwich and yes, the Bong! of Gloom again. So effectively, no change.

I'll go down to Argos and buy a cheepo LCD meter there just to make sure alternator is actually giving some stuff out
But think that's clutching at straws as with a newly installed battery (saved old one BTW) were it somthing to do with terminal volts the fault would've been at least different -- old battery vs new. But hey, whadda I know? Now had a whole six days of ownership

What next can I check?

<later> forgot to mention -- the HDC not operational and Air Susp not operational messages were being shown on the bottom set of LCDs in the binnicle. But there were several pixels missing. Apparently the LCD sets are available from eBay. When the fault's not being shown then that display showed RANGE: (miles) But after battery change out there was nothing on the LCD at all until the "not operational" messages come up. Pressing in the stalk in the nacelle produces (in incomplete pixels) CHECK CONNECTION... All very helpful...

We had a practical fault finding lecturer in college (1964 before you ask ;-) who if you asked him something would sound out: "Have you checked the voltage?" before moving on out

Saint.V8 · Jan 8, 2019

OK....now we know we have a good battery....

Refresh the brain:

Have you changed the suspect ABS sensor or checked it is actually working?

The ABS ECU internally can suffer from heat damage, there are tiny little filament connections in there, that over time with vibration and temperature begin to come adrift and cause intermittent issues. Most commonly happens when the ECU gets warm.....then when it cools down a bit it works, then when it gets warm it goes into fault.

I link my thread to the internal of my old ABS ECU where I had an intermittent fault I couldn't trace and ended up doing oddles of research and the ABS ECU is a known fault item when it gets warm (esp. in the BMWs it comes from....goolge it, you will find some awesome info out there!).....

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/im-lonely-lets-throw-a-fault.213774/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/recurring-abs-fault.222079/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...is-going-to-be-is-it-you-stubborn-cow.223991/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...response-to-tech-bulletin-lm206-001v2.223587/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/bosch-5-7-dsc-abs-ecu-module-internal-view-with-video.224307/

RichardSEL · Jan 8, 2019

Saint.V8 said:
OK....now we know we have a good battery....
Refresh the brain:
Have you changed the suspect ABS sensor or checked it is actually working?

The operation of the height adjust is correct for all of the time the fault is not present -- up, down, even the motorway mode works. Originally the fault gave the appearance of only occuring when steering turned some way close to either full lock. But I now think that's just co-incidence (and me hungry for fault symptoms meaning something) as the fault does occur when driving straight ahead. And once I think when not driving at all. Another time it seemed to come up (from no fault) when switching IGN off..

The NSF ABS speed sensor was changed in September 2017, according to previous keeper that cured the fault until August 2018 when it came back. I presume then he decided to sell and not do anymore. Hence interesting price...

Saint.V8 said:
The ABS ECU internally can suffer from heat damage,

I don't know where that ECU lives

Saint.V8 said:
there are tiny little filament connections in there, that over time with vibration and temperature begin to come adrift and cause intermittent issues. Most commonly happens when the ECU gets warm.....then when it cools down a bit it works, then when it gets warm it goes into fault.

That would fit

Saint.V8 said:
I link my thread to the internal of my old ABS ECU where I had an intermittent fault I couldn't trace and ended up doing oddles of research and the ABS ECU is a known fault item when it gets warm (esp. in the BMWs it comes from....goolge it, you will find some awesome info out there!).....

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/im-lonely-lets-throw-a-fault.213774/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/recurring-abs-fault.222079/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...is-going-to-be-is-it-you-stubborn-cow.223991/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...response-to-tech-bulletin-lm206-001v2.223587/
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/bosch-5-7-dsc-abs-ecu-module-internal-view-with-video.224307/

I'll have a read -- meantime is this particular ECU reachable. Especially by someone not so flexible as once was?
Are there re-conditioned units out there? I'm taking it in on the 10th and would like to put off this if that's the next
sensible elimination move.

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