[RRMaximus]

I didnt take you for an idiot?
I actually asked for more info, you treated me like I had no idea first.
You attacked me for not using google.
I showed you JLR official documents (right or wrong). You couldnt even bother to be constructive about them or question them.

Now to your issue.
To me it is possible/probable the gearbox ECU only looks at, gearbox speed signals along with signals from engine.
Your output shaft speed will not change in relation to the input/crank speed, you will just be going a little faster.
To me all the gearbox needs is difference between input/output shafts and engine speed/load demand, as programmed into the ECU.

Now will it hold 5th locked up is another thing, it probably would but the slightest incline may see it unlock and drop a gear.

We tow alot (well we did, not so much now) the L322 hated to shift into 8th, you either had to break the speed limt for towing, or flappy paddle it. But any twitch on the thorttle would see it change again.

J

I looked at your PDFs.

While the gearbox has those two sensors it also has information about which gear it is in, the road speed of the car (from the ABS), the throttle position and the RPM of the engine.

I'm not surprised that the eight speed does not lock up easily given that it was probably intended to be used by people driving in Germany on the autobahn at higher speed.

The gearboxes are from ZF which is a German company so they would be made for the German roads.

Also Range Rover's are sold worldwide and there are many countries where the speed limit is higher than England.

I'm not overly concerned about the torque converter not locking up because I can get the answer using my OBD reader very quickly.

If someone has actual knowledge of ZF gearboxes and can tell me that my change will definitely stop the torque converter locking up than that is a different thing.

I'm not going to spend hours reading through technical manuals that don't answer the question when my OBD reader will do that.

 

[RangeRoller dt]

I could buy replacement diffs for around £100 each, I would save the cost in reduced fuel consumption on the trip

Exhibit B.

 

[marjon]

The joke being of course that it is clear that I know more than any of the people that have attacked me on this forum.

You are one of the only people who seems to have actual knowledge and I appreciate that.

The bottom line is. there are many knowledgeable people on this thread, and trust me many of us are willing to learn and take a school day.

I would ask what OBD reader you have cos its probably not going to give you enough info to maintain an L322 (of any year). Obviously it cant do your suspension so I would question its ability.

There are better available, loads of chat about them for your year that do not cost the £500 for a GAP.
But I cant comment on their use as I dont have that year. We have the GAP for ours. but there are cheaper and as competant available but maybe not as easy to use.

J

 

[RRMaximus]

As it happens, RRPhil suggested your gearbox was probably on it's way out due to running low on fluid for a while before you bought it ?

Mine was a simple question with no ridicule, hidden banter, mickey taking, etc. Just a query because diff changes must have some impact on how the gearbox behaves.

I did not suggest good, bad or otherwise.

It does make one wonder if there's a culture clash going on, where you appear to take genuine questions as attacks. They are not.

That's not exactly what Phil said but I'm not going to argue the details with you.

Differential changes may have an effect on the gearbox but that will be on every gearbox not anything unique to my specific gearbox.

You asked me a specific question about my gearbox and in there was the implication that I was the kind of idiot that were just that it was low on oil.

Let me give you an example, with a simple genuine question not designed to imply anything at all.

Hey Kiddo, when you bought your Range Rover did you actually check it over to see if it was OK or did you just buy it sight unseen?

That would be the kind of question I would ask a teenager, not someone posting on a Range Rover forum asking a detailed question about an unusual idea.

There is an implication in the question that the person is an idiot who just buys a car without checking it out.

Now go back to your gearbox question and see that you did exactly the same thing.

But the other thing is that what has my specific gearbox situation got to do with the question about whether the differential change would work?

If my gearbox is working then your question is irrelevant, and if my gearbox is not working I would not be driving to Portugal with it.

Plus your question is just a distraction from the main topic.

Given all of the patronizing and abuse and condescending comments that I have had here over the last five days, I'm not in the mood to give anyone any credit when I ask a stupid question.

But I did take the time to answer it.

No I did not just magically feel that my gearbox was low on oil, I looked.

Are you happy now with the answer?

 

[RRMaximus]

Exhibit B.

And DIRECTLY after that I said...

"But my major concern is running the engine for a long time on a highway at a higher RPM than necessary."

Do you have any more gotcha questions?

 

[Stanleysteamer]

I didnt take you for an idiot?
I actually asked for more info, you treated me like I had no idea first.
You attacked me for not using google.
I showed you JLR official documents (right or wrong). You couldnt even bother to be constructive about them or question them.

Now to your issue.
To me it is possible/probable the gearbox ECU only looks at, gearbox speed signals along with signals from engine.
Your output shaft speed will not change in relation to the input/crank speed, you will just be going a little faster.
To me all the gearbox needs is difference between input/output shafts and engine speed/load demand, as programmed into the ECU.

Now will it hold 5th locked up is another thing, it probably would but the slightest incline may see it unlock and drop a gear.

We tow alot (well we did, not so much now) the L322 hated to shift into 8th, you either had to break the speed limt for towing, or flappy paddle it. But any twitch on the thorttle would see it change again.

J

On the Discovery thread part of the forum there are various work-arounds that peeps have done to keep the torque convertor in lock-up. I have been tempted because it comes in at just about the legal max on A roads and, as you said, drops out for anything.

And as you know we do tow a lot, so yep, same issue.

 

[pwood999]

I did not imply you let the box get low on fluid, or state it was you, or blame you.

You clearly said in the other thread it was low when you bought it, and was going into limp mode.

You indicated (not stated) that you were looking at used replacements (which I agree with & have no problem with), so I simply wondered if you had done it or not ?

As it happens I bought one RR after a lengthy test drive, and the other sight unseen as a project.

Both have been maintained regularly and working fine.

The only remaining issue on both are the heated seats, which I cannot be arsed to fix, especially as my wife says I have hot bum !!

BTW, for this thread I'm copying what you do and using many separate statements . . . .

and shall continue to do so, until you actually do the diffs & report the findings . . . . . .

As a pioneer in this endeavour your findings might be of use to others in the future . . . . . .

Past information seems to be hard to find.

 

[RRMaximus]

The bottom line is. there are many knowledgeable people on this thread, and trust me many of us are willing to learn and take a school day.

I would ask what OBD reader you have cos its probably not going to give you enough info to maintain an L322 (of any year). Obviously it cant do your suspension so I would question its ability.

There are better available, loads of chat about them for your year that do not cost the £500 for a GAP.
But I cant comment on their use as I dont have that year. We have the GAP for ours. but there are cheaper and as competant available but maybe not as easy to use.

J

My OBD reader is iCarSoft and it is great.

For my specific model of L322 none of the OBD readers or the SSD computers can work on the suspension settings.

I spent 2 weeks researching which one to buy.

Only the gap tool can do what I need, or a garage with an older SDD setup.

It was £120 versus £550 for the gap.

It just happens that unluckily there is one thing that I need that it cannot do but if a garage decides to not rip me off I can probably get it done for £50.

With this car I have spent the least amount possible because I know that eventually it will be left with a wrecker in some country other than England when I eventually leave here.

Like I said, if it can tell me if the torque converter locks up then I will be fine.

 

[RRMaximus]

I did not imply you let the box get low on fluid, or state it was you, or blame you.

You clearly said in the other thread it was low when you bought it, and was going into limp mode.

You indicated (not stated) that you were looking at used replacements (which I agree with & have no problem with), so I simply wondered if you had done it or not ?

As it happens I bought one RR after a lengthy test drive, and the other sight unseen as a project.

Both have been maintained regularly and working fine.

The only remaining issue on both are the heated seats, which I cannot be arsed to fix, especially as my wife says I have hot bum !!

BTW, for this thread I'm copying what you do and using many separate statements . . . .

and shall continue to do so, until you actually do the diffs & report the findings . . . . . .

As a pioneer in this endeavour your findings might be of use to others in the future . . . . . .

Past information seems to be hard to find.

I didn't want to know the answer to my question, I was just pointing out that a question can be worded in a way to be an insult to somebody.

Given all of the insults that I've had here I just assumed it was another one.

If you wanted to ask about the gearbox then ask it on the gearbox thread not here.

I'm almost certainly not going to post the outcome of this exercise even if I do it because this place is so ridiculously insulting and rude that I don't really care about giving that information back.

Literally the very first comment here started with the word "kiddo" and the second comment was 100% patronizing.

Very soon I was told that I obviously had no mechanical experience at all.

Then it just got worse and worse.

I can imagine if it went well and I responded as such, it would be a barrage of telling me that it didn't go well, that I was lying, that I never did it, that the engine blew up and I'm keeping that a secret etc. etc.

When I got the answers to my questions here and mentioned that several people spent a day arguing with me that I didn't get the answers to my questions.

How ridiculous is that?

Then there are the teenage girl meme pictures and comments like they live in my head.

Only two people have have given me actual information of any knowledge and value here, and several people on another forum.

And we are 300 comments deep!

Once the comedy of this place fully wears off I will never come back for anything.

This place is a joke, which is a shame because there are decent people here.

But you have to sit through all the idiots making ridiculous comments in order to get one small piece of useful information.

The juice is not worth the squeeze.

 

[marjon]

While the gearbox has those two sensors it also has information about which gear it is in, the road speed of the car (from the ABS), the throttle position and the RPM of the engine.

It is a progammed EAT ECU for shift points and speed.
Now my (possible/probable) comment was based on. Those calulations could all be made from input/output shafts of the gearbox as it would be programmed with final drive ratios, mixed in with the engine speed/load.

I cannot find info for it being connected to the ABS speed sensors.

I'm not surprised that the eight speed does not lock up easily given that it was probably intended to be used by people driving in Germany on the autobahn at higher speed.

I dont think that was the whole reason while towing.
The 8 speed has a spread on the gears that is better for keeping in the most efficient running range.
When not towing it will lock up easliy at 60ish MPH

The gearboxes are from ZF which is a German company so they would be made for the German roads.

Really?

Many manufacturers used a ZF gearbox.
Ford GT 40.
DeTomaso pantera

and many more so the speeds on German autobahns have nothing to do with it.

They just make good gearboxes.

J

 

[RRMaximus]

It is a progammed EAT ECU for shift points and speed.
Now my (possible/probable) comment was based on. Those calulations could all be made from input/output shafts of the gearbox as it would be programmed with final drive ratios, mixed in with the engine speed/load.

I cannot find info for it being connected to the ABS speed sensors.



I dont think that was the whole reason while towing.
The 8 speed has a spread on the gears that is better for keeping in the most efficient running range.
When not towing it will lock up easliy at 60ish MPH



Really?

Many manufacturers used a ZF gearbox.
Ford GT 40.
DeTomaso pantera

and many more so the speeds on German autobahns have nothing to do with it.

They just make good gearboxes.

J

All I am saying is that the ZF 8 speed gearbox is not optimized for British speeds.

Yes it is used by many manufacturers but it is made in Germany and they will have considered the autobahn.

Anyway I'm not really concerned about this because my OBD reader will give me the answer that I need.

I don't have the time to discuss this further because for me it is a dead end topic and I have other things to do today.

Thank you for giving me all of the information that you can, I really appreciate it.

Not just here but on other threads.

 

[marjon]

All I am saying is that the ZF 8 speed gearbox is not optimized for British speeds.

We tow alot (well we did, not so much now) the L322 hated to shift into 8th, you either had to break the speed limt for towing, or flappy paddle it. But any twitch on the thorttle would see it change again.

'm not surprised that the eight speed does not lock up easily given that it was probably intended to be used by people driving in Germany on the autobahn at higher speed.

It works fine for normal driving anywhere, and will lock up in 8th with no issue.
I noted our difficulty to get into 8th for a reason but you didnt seem to see it.
I will just say, Load.

J

 

[Mark Piercy]

 

[marjon]

With this car I have spent the least amount possible because I know that eventually it will be left with a wrecker in some country other than England

Off topic I know, but what do you mean by this?
I am interested in your reasoning.

J

 

[RRMaximus]

It works fine for normal driving anywhere, and will lock up in 8th with no issue.
I noted our difficulty to get into 8th for a reason but you didnt seem to see it.
I will just say, Load.

J

And I said many times that I will be running the car with very little load.

 

[RRMaximus]

Off topic I know, but what do you mean by this?
I am interested in your reasoning.

J

I will leave England for somewhere else in Europe and I have three dogs so I will need to drive to my new home.

I will take my current car there and wreck it.

Unless somebody wants to come and buy the car from me and drive the car back to England at their own expense.

When I moved from Portugal to England ten years ago I drove there with my dogs in a 1.3 L Renault Cleo.

I took it to a wrecker who gave me £15 for it, then I sent the license plates back to Portugal to have it de-registered.

I guess I could buy the same car in my new location but left-hand drive and then use this car as a parts car.

But I think I will be done with owning this model of car by that time.

I wanted a Range Rover like this for 35 years since I was a kid and now I have one.

But I have other cars that I have dreamed of owning since I was a kid, so I will get something else next time.

Maybe a Porsche or a Lotus.

 

[marjon]

I will leave England for somewhere else in Europe and I have three dogs so I will need to drive to my new home.

I will take my current car there and wreck it.

Unless somebody wants to come and buy the car from me and drive the car back to England at their own expense.

When I moved from Portugal to England ten years ago I drove there with my dogs in a 1.3 L Renault Cleo.

I took it to a wrecker who gave me £15 for it, then I sent the license plates back to Portugal to have it de-registered.

I guess I could buy the same car in my new location but left-hand drive and then use this car as a parts car.

But I think I will be done with owning this model of car by that time.

I wanted a Range Rover like this for 35 years since I was a kid and now I have one.

But I have other cars that I have dreamed of owning since I was a kid, so I will get something else next time.

Maybe a Porsche or a Lotus.

So if your gona drive it there and scrap it why bother with any of this bollocks

J

 

[marjon]

And I said many times that I will be running the car with very little load.

Except the extra load needed to drive that high ratio.

You skip over answering anything technically, in all my posts. I try to provide technical data/reasons

So if your want Patronizing comments. go speak to yourself in the mirrior.

J

 

[pwood999]

If you're offended by words like "kiddo", or the other sentences in Mark's initial post, then you definitely need to man up.

There was definitely absolutely nothing in there that was offensive, racist, abusive or otherwise !!

It's called banter, and common place on this forum - get used to it or go elsewhere dude.

 

[Datatek]

Now we are getting somewhere. Real issues without the "I know everything" attitude.

The lockup occurs at around 50 mph and will obviously be affected by RPM and throttle.

But a car with a trailer will have the same RPM but a higher throttle position than a car without a trailer, and this does not stop the torque converter lockup clutch working.

Therefore I cannot imagine that my set up would instantly disable the lock up clutch.

Given that I will probably be driving at 70 mph or 80 mph this is a significantly higher speed than 50 mph so likely there will be enough inputs for the lockup to occur.

But as I said, my OBD reader should be able to answer that question instantly.

As for not pushing fifth gear, it will currently drive in fifth gear at low RPM without any problem, so I don't see that happening.

But the L322 has a manual selection on the gearbox so I can put it into fifth gear as I start on the next section of Spanish motorway.

I have no problem with a fault being logged if it does not affect the engine or gearbox.

The issue would be if the (ABS measured) wheel speed, RPM and gear selection threw up an error that caused the car to go into a failsafe mode and not drive properly.

Some people put on oversize wheels for off-road driving on these cars and I have not seen any mention online of this action shutting down the car.

Also when off-road driving one wheel could be off the ground and spin rapidly under power and I have not seen any comments about this situation shutting down the car.

So while your comments are valid, if I look through each one, think about them, and look at the available information I can find online, none of them seem to be actual problems.

The L322 torque convertor has a multi stage lock up, it's not ON/OFF. It's not directly wheel speed related but load (torque) related. Light load and throttle will se my P38 lock the torque convertor at 50mph, heavy load like caravan on the hook or going uphill it will stay unlocked at 50mph. Taller gearing is like having a trailer on or going uphill and as the L322 uses multi stage torque convertor lock up, I can see it spending more time slipping the lock up clutch than is good for it.