raywin
Well-Known Member
Thanks I will start looking for a fitting
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
i think its more of a persanal preference what people add to the fuel system and common sense should be used of what procudure is taken when its comes to injection systems
i am a mechanic and i see more injection failures due to cleaning agents .all because what a fancy sticker on a bottle told them .... you might as well go ahead and add drain o clean or ATF fluid and forget about the whole lubrication process of high tolerance moving parts
not all diesels fuels have the same PPM do a search on diesel sulfer and lubrication values
raywin
Well-Known Member
Well not all products are equal that's true but injector cleaner products have been on the market for some time and are marketed by people like redex and molyslip and selling everyday, if they were wrecking engines wholesale I am sure someone would have pointed it out by now.
Commercial engines in trucks etc run many hours per day most of it at running temperature, and probably run prety clean, but most private vehicles don't do this and probably have to warm up much more often, helping to muck them up a treat.
I'm not sure what's wrong with my engine but I intend to follow an elimination process to try and track it down and hopefully share my findings with every one who is interested.
Commercial engines in trucks etc run many hours per day most of it at running temperature, and probably run prety clean, but most private vehicles don't do this and probably have to warm up much more often, helping to muck them up a treat.
I'm not sure what's wrong with my engine but I intend to follow an elimination process to try and track it down and hopefully share my findings with every one who is interested.
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
2stroke has zinc and stuff in it which can screw up injectors, if you look at the price of new td5 injectors it ain’t worth messing about really
I gave mine a service today, which included new oil and filters all round, and I think it might be a little less smoky. It was getting dark when I had finished, so I need to start it from cold in daylight to be sure. I also repositioned the handbrake light switch by a few millimetres so the warning light actually goes off now when the handbrake is off.
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
but its ok to add in stuff to clean the injectors periodically ? and why ?
your missing the point on tolerance or sticking injectors as well as many blends of 2 stroke oil
doesnt forte also have a product like stop leak ? if this works there should also be no vehicle defected for oil leaks
Last edited:
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
2 stroke and a couple of months later
only one injector failed ?
so how did this single injector fail? electronically or mechanicaly ? whats your tests ?... and did you have this injector tested why and how it failed ?
since your no mechanic or fuel specialist .....why are you adding in dedicated cleaners to your fuel system ?????
Last edited:
raywin
Well-Known Member
Well here goes
I dont have the borescope yet so I will make a start ready for when it comes, cuts down the time out in the cold.
Take off the acustic cover and take the bolts out of the rocker cover
Back off the locking nuts and the adjuster screws to take off as much load as possible.
Take the bolts out of the rocker shaft half a turn at a time at first to release the load on the shaft evenly
Take those wire clips of the injector plugs, always gives me nightmares of one flyng off and dissapearing into the engine.
Notice the loom plug is bone dry and the harness plug which it connects to is too, so I think there is no sign of oil passing from the injector loom. Checked the red ECU plug which had a tiny bit of oil probably from the harness which was on a few years ago, ( clesaned it with brake cleaner and blew it with air)
Right getting a bit cool now so I covered the engine with clean paper and a plastic cover and lets hope the borescope comes tomorrow. Need to try and get as much deisel as possibe out of the common injector feed in the head so it does not drop into the cylinders, then pop out the injectors tomorrow.
I dont have the borescope yet so I will make a start ready for when it comes, cuts down the time out in the cold.
Take off the acustic cover and take the bolts out of the rocker cover
Back off the locking nuts and the adjuster screws to take off as much load as possible.
Take the bolts out of the rocker shaft half a turn at a time at first to release the load on the shaft evenly
Take those wire clips of the injector plugs, always gives me nightmares of one flyng off and dissapearing into the engine.
Notice the loom plug is bone dry and the harness plug which it connects to is too, so I think there is no sign of oil passing from the injector loom. Checked the red ECU plug which had a tiny bit of oil probably from the harness which was on a few years ago, ( clesaned it with brake cleaner and blew it with air)
Right getting a bit cool now so I covered the engine with clean paper and a plastic cover and lets hope the borescope comes tomorrow. Need to try and get as much deisel as possibe out of the common injector feed in the head so it does not drop into the cylinders, then pop out the injectors tomorrow.
Discodevon
Well-Known Member
Ozzylad I didn’t see how the injector failed but it happens to do so after the 2so, so it’s not set in concrete that it was that dude and the forte stuff is well known for being good stuff
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
depending on age and mileage
i highly doubt it was the 2 stroke as it never failed all 5 injectors
adding in oil to the fuel you must of been trying to substitute for some issiue
i have been running 2 stroke through my td5 and diesel ford focus for a few year now with no issues (i am only pro longing the enevertable )
the diesel here in australia seams to be more of a bio fuel that lacks allot of properties .....yellow with a bit of green and not consistent depending on the supplier
also diesel holds allot of moisture and this is not good for any injection system even on some best water trap systems on the market
back home in england most people thought its just a dye in the fuel red or clear diesel .....you will find that these to diesels are also different grades to meet emissions the dye is just an indicator of the grade.... this is why people add in fuel stabilisers but they figured out 2 stroke oil is just as good
i see allot of people using high end fuel cleaners and i always suggest if your going down this path use the fuel up as quick as possible (planing a trip ) .... and dont let this sit in the system for long periods
i really think before adding in cleaners an injection balance test before and after should be performed ......as injectors will compensate for another lets see how forte holds up to this challenge without any rigging and none bias results
Last edited:
raywin
Well-Known Member
OK more progress yesterday
Removed all the injector clamps and put them safe Then lifted out the injectors one by one, I use a long alen key to do this, I have often seen where people get worried because thy dont have a slide hammer, maybe Im lucky but I always find that a thin alen key under the part between the injector and the solenoid then steady pressure untill you feel it move, I also pull back on the injector to even out the force and avoid tiping it in the injector poket.
So look in the pockets to see how it looks
This picture is befre any cleaning and typical of what I found in all five pockets.
Not much sign of any blowpast just a bit of muck off the injector tip
Injector tips are covered in carbon as usual but No 5 was worse than the others its the one on the right
Checked the washers for any sign of blow past and I could not see any , picture is typical of what I saw.
The up your jacksy scope turned up and I tried it inside the cylinders but the picture is not so clear here is cylinder 5 looks a bit sooty in there.
So time to clean up, I used a big flat blade screwdriver and carefully cleaned the carbon in the center of the injector pockets, the I improvised using a 3/8" socket extention with some paper jammed in tight to make a polishing tool
Change the paper a couple of times and put some oil on it
Blow them out with air and take a look at the injectors
When you take the copper washer off the injector it usualy scrapes off some of the carbon then carefully brush the injectors avoiding the tip, and scrape the carbon out of the groove around the injector tip.
On the right is the injector I bought which I will swap for injector five, so I put on the nice new anealed copper washers with a smear of grease and the O rings which seem thicker than the originals
Gently drop them in and twist them slightly to be sure they are seated the new o rings were quite tight I had lubricated them with a tiny bit of grease to help them in.
Then torque them up to 34Nm
Put the rocker shaft back carefully and slowly nip it down moving along the bolts and nipping them a turn at a time to pull it down evenly
Torque them up and then for the rocker adjusters
Get the cam shaft on the correct mark then tighten up the screw till it bottoms, I go back and forward a few times to be sure its on the bottom then back it off 1 turn and nip the lock nut
Now make sure the injector plug clips are on and all is OK turn it over 3 or 4 times using the braker bar with a socket on the crank shaft pulley then put the lid on it.
Took out the fuel temp sensor and put a fitting in place then nicked the pressure gauge from my compressor as the other one have is onlt 2 bar (use it to set up my turbo)
Started the bleed process by pressing the throttle pedal 5 times and looked at the pressure
Just over 4 bar with the pump running falling back slowly to 0 when it stops.
I ran the bleed sequence four time to purge the system out and then started it up took three or four tries but away it went it sounded a bit lumpy so I put that down to the disturbance of the system, I pugged in the Nanocom and gave it a spin.
Number 5 injector balance was way off the others, they were all within - 1 to -4 but number 5 was + 14 to + 17
I now wonder is the new inhector duff or could it be that number 5 cylinder has other problems maybe valves.
Need time to think out the next action, will unplug the MAF and give it a run today
Dont you love TD5s
Removed all the injector clamps and put them safe Then lifted out the injectors one by one, I use a long alen key to do this, I have often seen where people get worried because thy dont have a slide hammer, maybe Im lucky but I always find that a thin alen key under the part between the injector and the solenoid then steady pressure untill you feel it move, I also pull back on the injector to even out the force and avoid tiping it in the injector poket.
So look in the pockets to see how it looks
This picture is befre any cleaning and typical of what I found in all five pockets.
Not much sign of any blowpast just a bit of muck off the injector tip
Injector tips are covered in carbon as usual but No 5 was worse than the others its the one on the right
Checked the washers for any sign of blow past and I could not see any , picture is typical of what I saw.
The up your jacksy scope turned up and I tried it inside the cylinders but the picture is not so clear here is cylinder 5 looks a bit sooty in there.
So time to clean up, I used a big flat blade screwdriver and carefully cleaned the carbon in the center of the injector pockets, the I improvised using a 3/8" socket extention with some paper jammed in tight to make a polishing tool
Change the paper a couple of times and put some oil on it
Blow them out with air and take a look at the injectors
When you take the copper washer off the injector it usualy scrapes off some of the carbon then carefully brush the injectors avoiding the tip, and scrape the carbon out of the groove around the injector tip.
On the right is the injector I bought which I will swap for injector five, so I put on the nice new anealed copper washers with a smear of grease and the O rings which seem thicker than the originals
Gently drop them in and twist them slightly to be sure they are seated the new o rings were quite tight I had lubricated them with a tiny bit of grease to help them in.
Then torque them up to 34Nm
Put the rocker shaft back carefully and slowly nip it down moving along the bolts and nipping them a turn at a time to pull it down evenly
Torque them up and then for the rocker adjusters
Get the cam shaft on the correct mark then tighten up the screw till it bottoms, I go back and forward a few times to be sure its on the bottom then back it off 1 turn and nip the lock nut
Now make sure the injector plug clips are on and all is OK turn it over 3 or 4 times using the braker bar with a socket on the crank shaft pulley then put the lid on it.
Took out the fuel temp sensor and put a fitting in place then nicked the pressure gauge from my compressor as the other one have is onlt 2 bar (use it to set up my turbo)
Started the bleed process by pressing the throttle pedal 5 times and looked at the pressure
Just over 4 bar with the pump running falling back slowly to 0 when it stops.
I ran the bleed sequence four time to purge the system out and then started it up took three or four tries but away it went it sounded a bit lumpy so I put that down to the disturbance of the system, I pugged in the Nanocom and gave it a spin.
Number 5 injector balance was way off the others, they were all within - 1 to -4 but number 5 was + 14 to + 17
I now wonder is the new inhector duff or could it be that number 5 cylinder has other problems maybe valves.
Need time to think out the next action, will unplug the MAF and give it a run today
Dont you love TD5s
Last edited:
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
test purposes by substitution
swap number 5 injector into another cylinder location then test again
Last edited:
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
i also just noticed you took a pressure reading from the temp sensor location ....this is not a true head pressure reading due to one simple flaw.... if the gauze inside the head was to be blocked or partially blocked ....the fuel temp sensor location will still see pressure as the regulator still bypasses fuel back to tank .... you need to T into the fuel return gallery on the fuel regulator side like i did as use to have a fuel pressure gauge installed ..... or measure from the fuel return line from the front of the head
Last edited:
raywin
Well-Known Member
Looks to me like the temp sensor is in the spill return chamber.
I found the readings were 4 Bar when the pump ran and this pressure fell when the pump stopped, this makes me think the readings are reasonable, gauge is not laboratory grade but it gives a good indication.
I found the readings were 4 Bar when the pump ran and this pressure fell when the pump stopped, this makes me think the readings are reasonable, gauge is not laboratory grade but it gives a good indication.
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
looks can be deceivingLooks to me like the temp sensor is in the spill return chamber.
I found the readings were 4 Bar when the pump ran and this pressure fell when the pump stopped, this makes me think the readings are reasonable, gauge is not laboratory grade but it gives a good indication.
you will find that the injector spill line has its own gallery masked in your illustration
otherwise number 4 fuel feed line and number 14 spill line in your illustration would be sending fuel to both sides to the cylinder head
Last edited:
raywin
Well-Known Member
So just an update.
Contacted the seller of the injector and he responded quickly and told me he had another injector which he sent to me by first class post, it's refreshing to find such a good honest person.
Yesterday I took out the new injector from cylinder 5 and also took out the one from cylinder 2 which was the most even one on the nanocom balance readings.
Put the replacement one in cylinder 2 because it's established that this cylinder can run well.
Then put the good injector from 2 into cylinder 5. This should tell me if there is any other faults in cylindet 5.
're coded the injectors with the nanocom, bled the system and fired it up.
All the old injectors run between +2 and-2 or 3 but number 4 with the new injector shows about +11 , but the engine sounds much better does not shake when ticking over.
I will probably give this one a bit of a run and see where that takes me.
Also not hearing the dreaded pump whine but need to give it a good test before committing on that.
I also have the new bleed valve and NR valve to install in the filter head.
Did not add any pictures as what I did was just repeat the stuff above.
Look out for the next exciting episode
Contacted the seller of the injector and he responded quickly and told me he had another injector which he sent to me by first class post, it's refreshing to find such a good honest person.
Yesterday I took out the new injector from cylinder 5 and also took out the one from cylinder 2 which was the most even one on the nanocom balance readings.
Put the replacement one in cylinder 2 because it's established that this cylinder can run well.
Then put the good injector from 2 into cylinder 5. This should tell me if there is any other faults in cylindet 5.
're coded the injectors with the nanocom, bled the system and fired it up.
All the old injectors run between +2 and-2 or 3 but number 4 with the new injector shows about +11 , but the engine sounds much better does not shake when ticking over.
I will probably give this one a bit of a run and see where that takes me.
Also not hearing the dreaded pump whine but need to give it a good test before committing on that.
I also have the new bleed valve and NR valve to install in the filter head.
Did not add any pictures as what I did was just repeat the stuff above.
Look out for the next exciting episode
raywin
Well-Known Member
Took off the catotonic converter yesterday a pain to do but bloody he'll performance feels much better, I reckon the cat is sooted up.
I read lots of wondwefull ways to clean them but seems like a load of rubbish, I did wonder if you hang it up, then put a blowtorch in the pipe and let the red hot air pass through it for an hour if it would get hot enough to burn up the soot.
I read lots of wondwefull ways to clean them but seems like a load of rubbish, I did wonder if you hang it up, then put a blowtorch in the pipe and let the red hot air pass through it for an hour if it would get hot enough to burn up the soot.
ozzyboydeano
Well-Known Member
smash the cat out is allot easier
unfortunatly the td5 does not go into regen mode the cat maybe to far gone and it may of callapsed in areas if you have had dribbly injectors in the past ... raw diesel destroys these things
Last edited:
raywin
Well-Known Member
I think that may be the case, such a big difference without the cat
