Yes I know this has been debated to death already on all forums and I'm ready for the roasting but any help appreciated.......

My son and I have bought a couple of sets of wolf style rims to retrofit to his 110 which we has been a restoration project for the last year or so. Fitted a set of black ET0 rims which we really like but now have the issue or non issue of thread engagement. The truck has 45mm studs which leaves 22.5mm protruding from the hub which in an ideal world leaves us 3 rotations of the wheel nut short

It seems that standard engineering practice is to have stud width to equal thread engagement into nut so M16 x 1.5mm pitch should be approx 10 turns, we get 7 turns so 4.5mm short from ideal, this ends up with a nut engagement as shown below which I think looks bad but still has plenty of engagement at the higher torque and would be safe



I know I can fit 60mm studs and everything would look better but to get the studs sent over here to New Zealand and the time to fit them but is it really necessary

The main issue thats bugging me is we have a few sets we would like to sell and I would like to be able to tell people that they will pass inspection, I looked up our inspection criteria and criteria for a pass are 'The wheel must be securely attached to the hub' and 'the wheel nut has sufficient thread engagement to the wheel stud'

I know the army put out a MOD that allowed the fitting of Wolf style rimes to standard defenders as this is quoted a lot as the reason you can fit these rims to the standard stud (40mm or 45mm) I think this is AESP 2320-D-122-811 MODIFICATION INSTRUCTION No. 36 but I cannot find a copy of this, I have found some of the quoted words out of it but not the actual document. I guess I am looking for some official landrover approved document that I can use to justify the requirements of our inspection criteria that the rim is securely fastened to the hub and with the wolf style rims fitted that there is sufficient thread engagement as the rejection criteria seems a bit loosely worded

Can someone get me a copy of the AESP Modification for this or point me in the right direction to show that landrover approve of fitting these rims with less than 16mm thread engagement, thanks

I know the 'piece of mind fix' is to put longer studs on but if landrover approved it without longer studs maybe its not needed.....Fixing aircraft for a job unfortunately makes me overthink everything!

Thanks.....

According to a Landy obsessed friend of mine you could officially run Wolf wheels with your existing studs, but with a slightly higher torque setting. I'll try to source the factory blurb for it, but it might have been for army vehicles which might not be available to the public.
If it was me, I'd take your wheel nuts to someone with a lathe and take 6mm off the outer face. This would get you past inspection while you find a more permanent solution.

Rangieman123 said:

According to a Landy obsessed friend of mine you could officially run Wolf wheels with your existing studs, but with a slightly higher torque setting. I'll try to source the factory blurb for it, but it might have been for army vehicles which might not be available to the public.
If it was me, I'd take your wheel nuts to someone with a lathe and take 6mm off the outer face. This would get you past inspection while you find a more permanent solution.

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Thx...yeah it would be great to get some official nod to the fitting of them...plenty of people skim the nuts as mentioned or fit nuts with end caps to hide the unengaged threads. We havent been failed yet as we havent needed inspection since getting it back on the road since re cert but just wanted to be prepared

Mine are the same as yours. They have been on and off several times, tightened to 120NM and have never moved or come loose even after several months and plenty of off-road use.
I think the longer studs are unneccesary.
I have these on mine ... just pressed on, they have never come loose either.

miktdish said:

Mine are the same as yours. They have been on and off several times, tightened to 120NM and have never moved or come loose even after several months and plenty of off-road use.
I think the longer studs are unneccesary.
I have these on mine ... just pressed on, they have never come loose either.

Nut Cover 27mm Single

Covers for 27mm hex nuts or bolt heads. Can be glued to smaller sizes with silicone or our butyl strip. SOLD SINGLY. IVA NUT COVER 27mm #NUTC27

www.carbuilder.com

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Thanks appreciate the reply, will look into those caps

I did buy a set of wolf studs for my 90 and had these fitted in the summer. I had the same debate and erred on the side of caution by getting them. A set of pattern studs were around £45 on eBay including UK delivery. The MoD had a special bulletin issued showing it as acceptable to use standard studs if the wheel nuts were torqued up higher to take into account the shorter threads.

Great looking Landy too! The rims painted white would finish it off nicely in my opinion.

Knappster said:

Great looking Landy too! The rims painted white would finish it off nicely in my opinion.

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Thanks..we actually have a new set of white ones as well, the black looked better as the limestone colour of the roof etc clashed a bit with the white wheels, we may paint a set limestone which would look better I think

Genuine Wolf wheels should be tightened to 170Nm
Standard steels 130Nm
After market wheels should be tightened as per the wheel supplier specification which is based on thickness of wheel and the design of the wheel.

MacStu said:

Thx...yeah it would be great to get some official nod to the fitting of them...plenty of people skim the nuts as mentioned or fit nuts with end caps to hide the unengaged threads. We havent been failed yet as we havent needed inspection since getting it back on the road since re cert but just wanted to be prepared

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I think I have a copy of the Land Rover documentation somewhere. I will see if I can dig it out. If not have enough contacts in the military I can possibly get hold of the military one as long as it is not “classified”

dag019 said:

I think I have a copy of the Land Rover documentation somewhere. I will see if I can dig it out. If not have enough contacts in the military I can possibly get hold of the military one as long as it is not “classified”

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That would be great thanks...

V8bob said:

Genuine Wolf wheels should be tightened to 170Nm
Standard steels 130Nm
After market wheels should be tightened as per the wheel supplier specification which is based on thickness of wheel and the design of the wheel.

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True and good point, ours are 8mm thick disk (against the hub) not sure what the genuine HD rims were but think they may have been 10mm? but have seen differing thicknesses, anyone able to confirm?

Torque value aside I'm mainly interested in finding out if landrover approved or still approve if the slightly less than 16mm engagement is OK as that is deemed an 'engineering norm at width of stud to equal length of engagement' I think its probably OK but just want some evidence to back up that what we get with 10.5mm of engagement is acceptable, we have another set to sell so would like to let the buyer know that they may not have to change studs if they end up the same as ours, also for our own piece of mind and being able to convince our WOF inspector they're good, without necessarily fitting caps to hide it

MacStu said:

landrover approved or still approve if the slightly less than 16mm engagement is OK

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Land Rover did approve and increased the torque value to compensate. That is why the feedback you get from Google and this thread etc is focused on the torque spec. But I understand you need a Land Rover publication stating that rather than a group of strangers on the internet!

dag019 said:

Land Rover did approve and increased the torque value to compensate. That is why the feedback you get from Google and this thread etc is focused on the torque spec. But I understand you need a Land Rover publication stating that rather than a group of strangers on the internet!

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Yeah.....be great to get the landrover endorsed document, the wheel manufacturer has come back to me with 150NM torque for the 8mm thickness so just need something to confirm that the less than 16mm engagement on the nut is all good

dag019 said:

I think I have a copy of the Land Rover documentation somewhere. I will see if I can dig it out. If not have enough contacts in the military I can possibly get hold of the military one as long as it is not “classified”

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Hi Dag...have you had a chance to see if you could source the MOD that allowed the HD rims to be retrofitted, I still have had no joy finding anything

This might help, second post mentions the MOD requirements.

Galladog said:

Torque

Are there torque (Nm) specs for the various fasteners on the truck. I am specially looking for the seats, seat box to body, 2nd row seat mounts, etc. Does it matter for these types of applications. Also need it for Wolf rims. Thanks

nas-row.com

This might help, second post mentions the MOD requirements.

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Thanks...what I ideally would like is the complete document as I think it mentions the studs falling short in the nut and the exposed threads, would ideally like this to be officially landrover approved and maybe the complete document indicates that. I'm fine with the extra torque, its just convincing people that although it doesnt look right the 3 or so exposed threads in the nut are officially OK.

Thanks...what I ideally would like is the complete document as I think it mentions the studs falling short in the nut and the exposed threads, would ideally like this to be officially landrover approved and maybe the complete document indicates that. I'm fine with the extra torque, its just convincing people that although it doesnt look right the 3 or so exposed threads in the nut are officially OK.

MacStu said:

Thanks...what I ideally would like is the complete document as I think it mentions the studs falling short in the nut and the exposed threads, would ideally like this to be officially landrover approved and maybe the complete document indicates that. I'm fine with the extra torque, its just convincing people that although it doesnt look right the 3 or so exposed threads in the nut are officially OK.

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Thee below is what I have saved. But I will try and get a copy of the military one for you as well.