Why Give up?

You asked for opinions. This is a forum. You would expect a range of opinions. Some silly, some good, some not so good. At the end of the day it is your decision. Make it.


But you have to live by it - not us.

DTd5 said:

Yes.

The pier will not have been designed to take such loading from a stuck in the mud 2.5 tonne(+) land rover, plus boat/trailer + drag from the mud etc.

Given that you are talking about an iron pier in tidal zone, corrosion will be a significant consideration and although you may think the structures are sound, introducing this kind of point load onto the structure could could cause failure of structural members or seriously weaken them.

Click to expand...

Where the hell did the mud come from it's a rocky beach?

Given that I stated quite clearly that the achor points I referred to were huge rings SET IN THE CONCRETE where the hell did the "iron pier in tidal zone" come from?

So, no I don't think I missed anything.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice and concerns, I'll just sell my wee inflatable dingy and forget all about it.

Cheers,

Ron.

Clanforbes said:

Where the hell did the mud come from it's a rocky beach?

You know that we dont.
by the way sand/mud/gravel not a lot of difference traction wise

Given that I stated quite clearly that the achor points I referred to were huge rings SET IN THE CONCRETE where the hell did the "iron pier in tidal zone" come from?

You mentioned pier.

So, no I don't think I missed anything.

Wrong you missed the point......all of them I believe.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice and concerns, I'll just sell my wee inflatable dingy and forget all about it.

What ever you do don't sell yr boat.
BUT for gods....ache learn all there is to know about winches and recovery

Cheers,

Ron.

Click to expand...

Then all will become clear.......................I hope

Thanks again Mad Hat. Yep, I did ask for opinions on the winch I had linked to and I genuinely apreciated your responses and of course I wouldn't give up, I hope I did not give you the impression that I wasn't grateful for your opinions and thoughts on the subject.

But suddenly I seemed to have caused offence by asking a question which might have been spoiling other's fun use of the forum, then I was apparently gonna be demolishing some iron pier on some muddy bog like beach or doing extreme recovery work, neither of which is remotely connected to what I had mentioned. I foolishly used the term self-recovery when I should have clearly explained that I liked the idea of having a winch available should I ever need to give my landy a straight pull up a very stoney beach should I be silly enough to get it stuck in the stones, which I believe is a very remote possibility, I would never be stupid enough to claim I'm never gonna get stuck. Naturally, I would learn how to do this in a safe and proper manner if I did buy one, but, I don't think I will 'coz the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Thanks again to everyone else for their concerns and advice, it has all been taken on board, and has helped me reach a wise conclusion.

Take care,

Ron.

Clanforbes said:

Where the hell did the mud come from it's a rocky beach?

Given that I stated quite clearly that the achor points I referred to were huge rings SET IN THE CONCRETE where the hell did the "iron pier in tidal zone" come from?

Click to expand...

Well you did say this:

Clanforbes said:

The locations I launch my boat at have a pier.

I don't think I'd be able to pull the pier into the sea with a landy and a winch?

Click to expand...

You have clearly mentioned the sea, hence it is tidal.

You also mentioned iron rings. Hence Iron pier in tidal zone :doh:

You have also inferred you will be winching from the pier and do not believe you would pull it into the sea - are you sure about that!!

With regards to mud, no you did not mention mud, but at that time you also had not mentioned rocks, but has already been pointed out, mud/rocks/sand.... its all the same in terms of what we are discussing.

You have now provided more information on the situation, but based on what you had previously stated, my comments were perfectly valid.......

ffs guys - how many peeps launch boats without a winch?

if yu want a winch - go for it, but as others have suggested..... as with all equipment learn to use it properly.
Chances are you will never need it.

fuuuucking ellll! This has dragged on(hehehehe...oh dear).Any hoo, clanforbes you mentioned a winch that doesnt have to be fixed to ya car perminately.That my friend is called a tirfor.Powered by man so so electric/hydraulic problems.****ing simple to use, but a little hard work(burn off the pies/beer) and can be used in any direction/to pullanything-even non landies.Best part is its cheaper than the one on ebay you had.Ebay has tirfors suitable for your purpose used n new.Happy days

not watched the whole vid cos hes annoying and aussie but you get the idea [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k39wFI4MQQg"]YouTube - Ask an Expert - Hand Winching[/nomedia]

Hi Goon,

Thanks for the suggestion, to be honest the idea of working off the FAR too many pies does appeal a lot, but the idea of hard work more than negates it,.
I did notice the Tirfors mentioned in the thread I eventually found about which winch. Somewhere else I also saw a post about using a high lift jack (I think that was what it was called.) It was pretty much that which got me considering buying a winch (coupled with having more money than good sense) but it's only my lack of off-road experience which has given rise to the possibility of getting stuck on ground that any of the more experienced guys would split their sides laughing at.

As for the rest of the **** take, I did fall for it for a while, hook, line and sinker, but I'm gonna just stick with the better bits of advice and ignore the rubbish.

So I have learned that if I ever did decide invest in a winch, to help get my landy up the beach and away from the incoming tide then:

1. Make sure I learn how to do it safely - wise advice, thanks Broms.
2. That winching isn't as straight forward as I might think, but a straight pull, if using good secure, safe anchorage points, although not rocket science, could still be fraught with many dangers so get some practice in first - wise advice again, thanks Broms.
3. Don't try anchoring to anything flimsy like iron girders, which, thankfully there are none of in either of the two locations where I might use a winch, just solid stone & concrete built harbours, jetty or piers or call 'em what you will - wise advice, thanks DT5.
4. Next time, just quietly go and buy something this controversial and work it out for myself from there as it's my choice and my responsibility (not only to myself, but to anyone & any property nearby) to use it safely and not damage nothing - yep.
5. Utilise Mad Hat's suggestion and use the winch from the car park to pull the boat up the beach like I used to wiv ma wee van, might as well just stick to this routine I guess, though taking the landy down the beach would be more enjoyable, after all, that is why I bought it.

Seriously tho lads, thanks for your input, all of you, I know you only meant well.

Cheers.

Ron.

As an alternative, have yu considered one of the towball mounted winches? There if yu ever need it , but kept nice and as new if yu don't?
Yu can fit a towball to the front - many of us do.

and if it goes tits up take photos.**** it take photo even if it dont.We likes piccies

Wot he said^^^^^

But also make sure yu can contact LZ

1) so we can come and laugh
2) but help you out (see LZ international rescue)

The Mad Hat Man said:

As an alternative, have yu considered one of the towball mounted winches? There if yu ever need it , but kept nice and as new if yu don't?
Yu can fit a towball to the front - many of us do.

Click to expand...

Yep, I have one, it takes so bloody long to let out the tiny short bit of wire rope that's on it, I could have grown my hair quicker and I'm bald!!! I think it's only rated for about 5 tons rolling load though.

I have considered the front tow-ball too, but I don't have any use for it.

Oh they are both definite yesses. If nothing else, at least we can all laugh about it.

I did have some pictures of one of the beaches, but I had to re-image my pc a year or so ago and I think I've lost them. Most stuff is backed up, but these don't seem to be in my collection.

As I said, I don't really like the look of some of the winches I've seen, and it really isn't a must have item for me. I have had my landy in much more difficult places than either of these beaches without even a hint of difficulty. The only thing that's got me a little paranoid about it is the fact that it's salt water and having a winch on the front end would give me a bit more confidence if I was to launch/recover the boat at low water. Naturally, a little bit of common sense dictates that for the first few times I stick to launch/recovery at high tide and I'd never even dip it's tyres in the salt water, I'd use a short rope to pull the trailer out of the salt before I hitched it to the landy. That salty stuff could do some funny things to all my nice metal bits.

Right, I'm off to watch that "Ask an Expert" vid then it's my bedtime - I work nights.

First question would be, are you planning on launching your boat by reversing the LR into/near the water, or by using a front mounted towball? Most yachting clubs etc who have a machine (mostly, tractor, but occasionally they'll have an old LR) launch off of a front mounted hitch of some kind. Basically for visibility reasons. If you use a tractor to do it, you'll notice that without a cab/etc they have great rear visibility, so they might well just use the rear hitch.

Obviously if you decide to launch using a front hitch, then the subsequent LR recovery, if needed, will near a rear pull which means a rear mounted winch.

Worth sorting out how its all going to be done, etc. If its just boat launching then a small tow ball mounted winch (around 2000-4000lbs pull) is a sensible idea. You could fit front towball as well as rear and have loads of flexibility/options. Also another advantage is they can be removed and stored inside, which is good for security. Just remember to factor in the extra costs/etc of a high current electrical plug, the cost of the towball/winch adapter, etc. It might work out to fit a US-spec receiver hitch front & rear.

paul_c said:

First question would be, are you planning on launching your boat by reversing the LR into/near the water, or by using a front mounted towball? Most yachting clubs etc who have a machine (mostly, tractor, but occasionally they'll have an old LR) launch off of a front mounted hitch of some kind. Basically for visibility reasons. If you use a tractor to do it, you'll notice that without a cab/etc they have great rear visibility, so they might well just use the rear hitch.

Obviously if you decide to launch using a front hitch, then the subsequent LR recovery, if needed, will near a rear pull which means a rear mounted winch.

Worth sorting out how it's all going to be done, etc. If its just boat launching then a small tow ball mounted winch (around 2000-4000lbs pull) is a sensible idea. You could fit front towball as well as rear and have loads of flexibility/options. Also another advantage is they can be removed and stored inside, which is good for security. Just remember to factor in the extra costs/etc of a high current electrical plug, the cost of the towball/winch adapter, etc. It might work out to fit a US-spec receiver hitch front & rear.

Click to expand...

Very good points Paul. I would be reversing the landy to the water's edge. Then the trailer would get taken off the hitch, there is a spare wheel on the front of the trailer which is fitted to a spare hub and it acts like a jockey wheel when the trailer is off the hitch. The trailer is then rolled into the water enough to float the boat off. Recovery is more or less the same but the boat is usually hand winched back onto the trailer, pulled out of the water by hand (or a short rope if it's wheels are in sand or mud) and hitched back onto the landy to drive up the slope to the car park.

The front mounted towball and winch would be helpful, without doubt if there was any problems, but the one I have is so slow I think the Tirfor would be faster and more useful. I saw someone mentioned that they had an electric winch mounted on a plate under their chassis, which sounds like a nice idea for security, but it's not something I would do. To be honest, security isn't much of a concern for me and if I was worried for any winch on my vehicle I'd simply weld the nuts onto the bolts to discourage opportunist theft.

Now that I have a landy and can drive over the stoney surface (the little van I used to have wouldn't have managed it,) the rope technique I used to use to get the boat out of the water and up the beach would be more than sufficient. The times I did it before with a longer rope simply looked comical and unprofessional, and the fact that the rope had a fair bit of stretch in it didn't help as the trailer cleared the top of the rise it would take a wee run to itself for a couple of feet which made it look even funnier. I usually have at least one person with me when I go out and we always managed it, but the landy will make life so much easier.

Thanks for your input though, it's all appreciated.

:doh: What am I thinking (or not thinking,) the little hand winch on the trailer would easily draw the trailer up to the landy if I wanted it to:doh:

Though it wouldn't help get the landy up the beach if I got into serious diffculties.

Ron.

No worries, with that in mind I'd put you down as an "occasional user" of a vehicle winch, and as such the one in your original post would be more than up for the job. In fact, I have the same budget winch, I purchased mine from Winch Solutions (Google for their own website, or eBay seller winchsol). I know of lots of others on here and elsewhere who have bought the same winch, many off the same company and generally it does a good job. Obviously, bear in mind its at the budget end of the scale.

The only cautious observation I'd made is the winch bumper has fixed loops and D shackles. Some winch bumpers don't come with them at all, but are pre-drilled with the (standardised) 36mm hole, to fit (ideally) swivelling shackles. Some come with the swivel shackles too. Mine didn't (but once again, was a bargain) and a pair of swivel shackles including mounts etc are surprisingly expensive, at around £45-50. Swivel shackles are going to be technically better than the non-swivelling ones on that bumper in the eBay ad, but I dare say the bumper is solidly enough constructed to make no difference in practice. If you need to do a pull from a significant side angle, you risk bending or fracturing the fixed mounts.

The only other thing is, you might need to buy an isolation switch and electrical connectors, probably another tenner or so and you're all sorted.

the problem is a catch 22. I dont need a good winch cos i dont use it much = This cheap winch ive got failed the one time ive used it.:doh:

Clanforbes said:

:doh: What am I thinking (or not thinking,) the little hand winch on the trailer would easily draw the trailer up to the landy if I wanted it to:doh:

Though it wouldn't help get the landy up the beach if I got into serious diffculties.

Ron.

Click to expand...

Ah but with enough line and pulleys it could ( and good anchor point/s before someone points it out )