fishsponge

fishsponge

New Member
Today I had my wheels aligned. I was bored of the car wanting to pull slightly to the left all the time and having to hold the wheel slightly to the right to keep it in a straight line. It wasn't extreme, but becoming annoying and wearing my tyres down.

So, here are the BEFORE figures:

FRONT AXLE
Total toe: +4.2mm
Half-toe: LH -0.3mm / RH +4.5mm

And now the AFTER figures:

FRONT AXLE
Total toe: -0.8mm
Half-toe: LH -0.5mm / RH -0.4mm

As you can see, things were a bit off, which is presumably why I was having to steer to the right to keep it in a straight line.

The trouble now is that although it drives in a perfect straight line all by itself the steering wheel now rests in this position while it's doing so:

24294d1310225790-wheel-alignment-rear-axle-not-level-other-dimensions-out-well-steering_wheel.jpg


Surely that can't be right.

Also, the other AFTER figures look like this (they did not adjust these values):

FRONT AXLE
Camber: LH -00º32' / RH -00º17'
Caster: LH +01º36' / RH +02º08'
King-pin angle: LH +07º34' / RH +06º54'

Can someone tell me how bad all of this is? It's mostly red which indicates bad, and the steering wheel is off-centre, but I don't know how much of an issue it all really is.

One other thing to note is that my rear axle is out of alignment too (apparently, I need to shim the passenger/left side trailing arm). Here are the figures:

REAR AXLE
Total toe: +1.3mm
Half-toe: LH +2.3mm / RH -1.0mm

So... any advice gratefully received!
 

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you can adjust drag link to correct steering wheel,leave in position it drives straight in and get someone to watch steering wheel straighten while you adjust drag link,undo clamps both ends knock clamps towards center of drag link with 2 large hammers on opposite sides hit drag link with one using other as anvil around tube that joint is screwed into so that you cover all the area of joint thread plus gas will help do this till tube is free to rotate both ends ,makes sure both joints are at 90 degrees to tube before reclamping ,if wheel is where it is when driving straight lengthen draglink adjusting drag link wont effect tracking,with rear might be worth checking bush tube and bolts are worn in axle bracket and chassis end not worn and tight,new bushes probably before shimming,same goes on front axle,caster and camber are both done through swivel pin angles but worn bushes/bolts can effect them
 
thanks for the advice, james.

Yes, the steering wheel is where it is in the picture when the vehicle is driving in a straight line without me holding the wheel.

On that basis, are you saying that if I lengthen the "drag link" it will put my steering wheel back into the central position without affecting anything else at all?

As for the rear, I put brand new OEM bushes on a while ago, I left the axle-end bushes alone as they seemed to be fine. I replaced the chassis-end bushes. This made the problem better, but not perfect.

The bush tube is not too worn in the axle bracket, but I guess it could be worn by a single mm or so. The chassis-end bushes are brand new with new bolts so I know they are good.

In summary, the place that did the "4-wheel laser geometry" said everything else is not worth worrying about. The front wheel alignment was fixed and despite the red, everything else was close enough not to worry.

So... as a minimum, I should lengthen the "drag link" to correct the steering wheel position and then consider replacing the trailing arm and radius arm bushes at some point in the future... Sound good?
 
I need to do line my wheel sits at about 75degrees to the left when I'm going straight lol. I'm just going to remove steering wheel and put it back on straight!
 
If steering wheel is a long way out, the pas unit should be zeroed by slipping a pin in the hole at zero position, then adjust wheel by moving the wheel or uj clamps, then adjust straight ahead by adjusting the drag link.

The pas unit is made to be tight at the straight ahead point and won't be too happy if used permanently at a zero position that is miles away from that point.
 
hmm... starting to get confused again now... there appear to be several methods for fixing this problem, and the problem may lie in several places (drag link, PAS unit, steering wheel mounting).

What is the first thing I should check? Presumably this PAS unit "zeroing pin"? If so, where is it?
 
adjusting drag link would probably be fine,for you as is only out a bit and has been put out by tracking i presume ,but if you want to do it from the start on the botttom of steering box is a hole that can be lined up with a drill or suitable punch ,this or should be centre point of box with equal turns to full in both locks as the sector shaft which protrudes out of bottom of box with drop arm on swings either way from 90 degrees from input shaft it moves in arc and comes away from close contact with input shaft giving freeplay in box either side of center more in full lock even though input is made in a way to compensate for this , when rebuilding them i have to shim input shaft to put this center tight point in right place,now with pin in place box is centered remove couplings on steering shaft to box helps with small chisel to open up slot on joint to aid sliding ,some of the shafts have a groove around where pinch bolt locates some have a flat adjustment can only be done with shaft with groove obviously and with somones help refit with steering wheel straight ,then drive car notice where wheel sits when vehicle is straight if not the same ans adjust drag link to center steering wheel,job done ,instead of removing shaft you could remove steering wheel but this can be more tricky especially with air bags etc
 
i'm sure that's very simple, but it doesn't sound it... i guess it's one of these things that's simple in practice, but when it's all written down it starts to sound hellish.

if by lengthening the drag link, I'm not going to harm the power steering box because it's "off-centre" the whole time while I'm going straight, I think i'll do that. Please confirm.

Also, if the drag link is the long arm that goes from left to right behind the front axle though, why did they touch it yesterday when aligning the wheels? Should they not have left that alone if it can be used to adjust the steering wheel without touching the alignment?
 
to make it easier adjust (lenghten as it needs turning clockwise) drag link one in front of axle ,one behind is track rod it adjusts to alter tracking dont touch it ,when adjusted take vehicle for a drive to check right, redo if necessary ,park with wheels straight and look up you see if drop arm is far out by looking at slot and hole adjusting tracking (rear rod )can alter drag link ,adjusting drag link wont effect tracking
 
fishsponge said:
Also, if the drag link is the long arm that goes from left to right behind the front axle though, why did they touch it yesterday when aligning the wheels? Should they not have left that alone if it can be used to adjust the steering wheel without touching the alignment?
Click to expand...

looking from the front of the vehicle towards the back, underneath, on the left is the pas box, out the bottom sticks the sector shaft with a big nut on it, this nut clamps the drop-arm which connects the sector shaft to the drag link. The drag link is the first long tube you come to that runs from left to right in front of the axle, this has a joint on each end and will adjust to allow centering of the steering.

The last or rearmost tube is the track rod and as it's name suggests is used to adjust the tracking only, this is the one that garages monkey about with when they do the tracking.

Now, as all settings are connected, when you tweak the tracking it upsets the centre position of the steering, a good garage, not in a rush will sometimes reset this but not always as they can't be bothered. On a landy it's a doddle and I would do it myself, on a car its different as they don't have drag links or track rod tubes but the track rod is replaced with the steering rack which has adjusters on each end, different story.

If yours is just a small amount off, maybe from 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock then just tweak the drag link as described, the hard part will getting the damn joints to loosen, I ended up fitting a new tube and joints!

I kept tweaking mine until it was just right, but I had also fitted a new steering box and track rod too so the lot needed setting.
 
ive never come across a drag link or track rod ball joint that cant be freed using penertrating fluid and two hammers and ive done a few ,if you want to remove rod to make it easier to free after removing nut hit arm on the end near joint and it will pop out if hit hard enough without damaging joint,joint is held on slow taper hitting deforms hole temporarily enough for joint to loose hold,if joint turns while undoing nut either lever down on back of joint to increase taper hold or jack it up if other way round to achieve the same
 
jamesmartin said:
ive never come across a drag link or track rod ball joint that cant be freed using penertrating fluid and two hammers and ive done a few ,if you want to remove rod to make it easier to free after removing nut hit arm on the end near joint and it will pop out if hit hard enough without damaging joint,joint is held on slow taper hitting deforms hole temporarily enough for joint to loose hold,if joint turns while undoing nut either lever down on back of joint to increase taper hold or jack it up if other way round to achieve the same
Click to expand...

:D:D you should have tried my one

I spent the best part of a day trying to loosen the joint threads, tried heat, oil, hitting them, in the end I lost my patience, stuck a big pair of stilsons on the end one joint and swung on it, the tube twisted up like a bit of barley sweet:eek:

I did get one off later by opening the end of the tube out with a cold chisel but it was fubarred anyway by then. The new tube was pretty cheap.
 
you have to hit with one side on hard surface like a vice or between two hammers and cover all the area surrounding thread,does work on any done throughly
 
right... job done! :D

thanks for the advice, people! And a couple of pics to go with it...

First, the hole you were talking about that lines up with something in the bottom of the PAS box... presumably if this lines up with the notch cut out of the drop arm it means the PAS box is resting in the central position, meaning it's not trying to work constantly, right?

Well, mine does appear to line up (I think):

24302d1310323499-wheel-alignment-rear-axle-not-level-other-dimensions-out-well-drop_arm.jpg


Secondly, I've got my basic art skills out again and drawn up a diagram showing the different parts of the steering system!

Let me know your thoughts and if there's anything missed off that really ought to be on there. If it's not too tiny or complicated, I can easily add it.

IMAGE REMOVED BECAUSE IT WAS SLIGHTLY WRONG... KEEP READING FOR UPDATED VERSION!

Hope ya like it! :D
 

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well done did you adjust drag link or? drawing not bad but your steering arms are straight should be facing in abit for track rod ,look up ackermans steering principles
 
yeah, I simply adjusted the drag link. nothing else.

I loosened the clamps, put a pair of stilsons on the drag link facing forwards and pushed them down and backwards.

Basically, I rotated the drag link in the same direction as the wheels rotate when you're travelling forwards.

This put the steering wheel back level again, and a test drive confirms that everything appears to be good.

I did not loosen anything on the track rod at all, or even touch it.

I will correct the diagram now :)
 
Right... here's an updated version!

Let me know how accurate it is now :D

24304d1310325918-wheel-alignment-rear-axle-not-level-other-dimensions-out-well-steering-mechanism.jpg


Also, can you confirm that in the photo above, the correct hole is lined up with the correct thing to show that the PAS box is centered properly and won't be working non-stop while going straight ahead?
 

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Yes, looks good, the drawing is nice too.

FYI, the steering arms on each wheel will point towards the centre of the rear diff if my memory serves me correctly.
 
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