cornish rattler · Sep 6, 2016

Hi guys
Just asking out of interest as I tend to see more petrol's towing more than diesels but just wondered which is best with the current models petrol or diesel

Seffy · Sep 6, 2016

Diesel; engines tend to produce far more torque for a given engine size than petrol. Torque is what counts for towing, not BHP. Gearing makes a big difference too, the reason most land-rover products are plated to tow 3500kg is that with low range engaged, they can make the requirement of pulling from a standing start on a specified incline. They are actually capable of much much more, but 3500kg is a legal maximum. To give you an idea, 4.0l petrol Jeep cherokee, and all the V8 range rovers I have owned come with the same towing capacity as my 2.5 oil burning disco.

I barely see any petrol range rovers, let alone ones actually towing, they all tend to be the oil burners. Not surprising, a quick look at Parkers, an Oilburner, 700Nm torque, compared to 625 for the petrol equivalent, and estimated fuel costs of a grand a year less. Why does anyone even consider a petrol one? Doubly so for towing.

tomcat59alan · Sep 6, 2016

Chipped diesel every time

Grrrrrr · Sep 6, 2016

4.6 seems able to pull anything.

Hill starts on steep inclines can really punish the clutch on the manual diesel P38. You could of course engage low but then you are stuck in it until you can stop to change up into HIGH again. Auto diesel obviously doesn't have that issue but it isn't exactly nippy.

tomcat59alan · Sep 6, 2016

Grrrrrr said:
4.6 seems able to pull anything.

Hill starts on steep inclines can really punish the clutch on the manual diesel P38. You could of course engage low but then you are stuck in it until you can stop to change up into HIGH again. Auto diesel obviously doesn't have that issue but it isn't exactly nippy.

As long as you get up enough speed in low you can select neutral and then high then first without stopping.

Ruby Range · Sep 7, 2016

My V8 happily pulls my wifes twin axle horse box and 2 horses and still returns 14 mpg. Some people might sniff at that but it gets to 60 quickly and happly sits there all day and no clattering of a diesel engine.

Seffy · Sep 7, 2016

for the newer ones, which the OP asked about, the smallest diesel is still only around 7sec to 60 from a standstill. Not what I would call sluggish by any means. Sure its not in Ferrari territory, but will wipe the floor with most of the stuff out there on the roads. The new V diesels are remarkably refined, we have moved on past the VM in early P38s, even way past the BMW lump, these are engines fitted into luxury cars, with refinement to match. I used to use a disco TDV6 for work, smooth, quiet, and plenty of grunt at the bottom end for quick pulling away or hauling trailers that were too heavy for it on the road legally. It could be what the OP sees towing are actually diesels, but they are so good now they sound like petrols

Burning oil rather than petrol is still a nobrainer for me. I would only go petrol if it was not petrol, but LPG, and I planned no heavy towing.

Grrrrrr · Sep 7, 2016

tomcat59alan said:
As long as you get up enough speed in low you can select neutral and then high then first without stopping.

Thought you had to be under 5 mph?

Seffy · Sep 7, 2016

Its a non-synchro gearbox. No technical reason you can't do it at any speed, providing you get all the gears, engine speed and road speed matched up.

wammers · Sep 7, 2016

For changes from high to low or low to high automatic box the vehicle speed must be less than 5 MPH preferably stopped. Manual gearbox high to low changes can be made at or below 5 MPH. Low to high changes can be made at upto 15 MPH.

Grrrrrr · Sep 7, 2016

Seffy said:
Its a non-synchro gearbox. No technical reason you can't do it at any speed, providing you get all the gears, engine speed and road speed matched up.

The change from low to high is handled by electrickery. If it doesn't like the parameters nothing will happen.

tomcat59alan · Sep 7, 2016

wammers said:
For changes from high to low or low to high automatic box the vehicle speed must be less than 5 MPH preferably stopped. Manual gearbox high to low changes can be made at or below 5 MPH. Low to high changes can be made at upto 15 MPH.

Correct, mine is a manual

wattfield · Sep 7, 2016

Well my Dacia 1.5 diesel tows better than my old Kia 1.4 petrol.

I'll get my coat.

300bhp/ton · Sep 7, 2016

Seffy said:
Diesel; engines tend to produce far more torque for a given engine size than petrol.

That simply isn't true. Not 100%. What you are doing is comparing a TURBO diesel, to a n/a petrol.

300bhp/ton · Sep 7, 2016

cornish rattler said:
Hi guys
Just asking out of interest as I tend to see more petrol's towing more than diesels but just wondered which is best with the current models petrol or diesel

Both are capable. But most lorries and tractors are diesel. This is because the low revving characteristics of a diesel suit towing well. And diesels tend to be more economical.

In the Land Rover world however, most of the diesel offerings are much lower powered than the petrols ones.

e.g. as good as a Tdi is, a 4.0 or 4.6 V8 is a much better towing tool and will keep speed better and suffer less on hills.

oakey · Sep 7, 2016

In the old days if you could double declutch then you could change from high to low and vice versa at any reasonable speed that both ratios and the engine could handle but that was with a manual box before this electronic stuff came in and told you what you can and cannot do. Similarily for going in and out of 4wd drive or at least locking the centre diff. Aaahhh those were the days

Thor1950 · Sep 7, 2016

wattfield said:
Well my Dacia 1.5 diesel tows better than my old Kia 1.4 petrol.

I'll get my coat.

Have you put weight on?

wattfield · Sep 7, 2016

Thor1950 said:
Have you put weight on?

No, that's my wee brother.

My other car is still a Land Rover!

Seffy · Sep 7, 2016

300bhp/ton said:
That simply isn't true. Not 100%. What you are doing is comparing a TURBO diesel, to a n/a petrol.

A) I said "tend to", the reason for tend to is that almost all oil-burners these days are forced induction
B) the OP is about current model range rovers, all of which I used in my comparisons, both petrol and diesel are forced induction. 3.0TDV6, 4.4TDV8, and 5.0 Supercharged petrol. The torques figures for the 4.4 are far in excess of those for the 5.0. Smaller diesel, more torque. To lose the torque battle you have to drop right down to the 3.0TDV6, which has 600Nm, against the 625Nm from the 5.0, or 700 in the 4.4, so 60% of the capacity of the big petrol, and about 96% of the torque.

Grrrrrr · Sep 8, 2016

It isn't just peak torque, it is the torque curve. As someone else said, diesel engines get lots of torque at low revs and keep it across most of the range before it suddenly vanishes. Petrol tends to be a lot more variable and you have to thrash it a little to hit the right torque in the following gear. That said, p38 wise the 4.6 pulls like a train.

thought we were considering series onwards?

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