blodge

blodge

Member
The leak in the high pressure pump on my 2003 TD4 has been getting progressively worse, the drip is a little embarrassing and endless cranking to get the engine to start when hot also attracts attention. So I rebuild a pump from the spares donor and replaced all of the seals. Fitted the rebuilt pump using the special tool and pretty sure that the timing stayed put, put it all together again, waited for the fuel to prime and then started the engine. Quite a few turns of the starter later the engine fired up and ... Oh Dear! Running very rough, clouds of smoke (grey or black, it was dark by now) and after about a minute without it getting any better I turned it off. Tried to crank it again and now the engine won't turn!

Took the manifold off again today and it is full of engine oil - the only reason that I can think of for this is that the turbo seal has gone which at about 150K wouldn't be a huge surprise but before this it was not smoking or suffering any other sick turbo symptoms.

I suspect that my rebuilt pump has gone wrong in a major way and that is sticking the engine but why the turbo should choose to go at the same time is beyond me. Any suggestions for what happened? I got depressed and walked away before I got the replacement pump back off but I can't think of any other reason for the engine locking up either.

It could just be bad luck! Perhaps I should have made a sacrifice to the gods before I started.
 
If the sprocket locking tool was used correctly, then it's pretty difficult for it cause a problem.

Is it possible the pump was assembled incorrectly, causing it to lock?

Or if there's lots of oil from the turbo filled a cylinder, then that could hydro-lock the engine.
 
Nodge68 said:
If the sprocket locking tool was used correctly, then it's pretty difficult for it cause a problem.

Is it possible the pump was assembled incorrectly, causing it to lock?

Or if there's lots of oil from the turbo filled a cylinder, then that could hydro-lock the engine.
Click to expand...

I think that I have to keep stripping, get the pump back out and see if it still turns or if the engine can be turned from the crankshaft pulley bolt. Do you know if the tool is threaded into the pump sprocket? I don't want to take the pump out then unwind the sprocket off the centre component of the tool by turning the timing chain. The pump was turning fine before it was fitted and the tool went in and out easily - a lot simpler than getting the pump out of the donor car.

I like the idea that the engine could be hydrolocked with oil but that would have to be a pretty spectacular seal failure on the turbo.
Thanks Nodge
 
blodge said:
Do you know if the tool is threaded into the pump sprocket?
Click to expand...
Yes. The tool screws into the sprocket, and rotating the crank with it fitted is unwise.
blodge said:
I like the idea that the engine could be hydrolocked with oil but that would have to be a pretty spectacular seal failure on the turbo.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't take much oil or fuel to hydro-lock a diesel engine. Just an egg cup full of oil would be enough to lock it up.
 
OK, the plan is:
get the pump back out and see if pump turns, if yes then put it back and get the tool back out
glow plugs out and see what comes out with them
then see if the engine turns and what noises it makes when it does
then a large mug of tea and a bit of a think
 
if it is hydro -lock then engine will not turn forward but should turn backwards, a bit , if you turn it back a bit then forwards it will stop at same point,
 
If sommat went wrong with pump refurb then it could be what I had when my hp pump failed. Vapourised hp fuel pushed into crankcase. Loads of white smoke and run on. Also sump oil level went up!! Could have just flooded everything with diesel and oil making it look like turbo. Seems a coincidence that you have had hp pump to bits.:confused:
 
andyfreelandy said:
If sommat went wrong with pump refurb then it could be what I had when my hp pump failed. Vapourised hp fuel pushed into crankcase. Loads of white smoke and run on. Also sump oil level went up!! Could have just flooded everything with diesel and oil making it look like turbo. Seems a coincidence that you have had hp pump to bits.:confused:
Click to expand...
Another useful thought Andy, thank you. How did the fuel get into the crankcase?
 
Via the timing cover and into crankcase ventilation. Has your engine oil level increased? Care with starting engine as mine ran on when switched off and I had to stall it to avoid run away. Scary with key in hamd and engine still accelerating!!
 
andyfreelandy said:
How are you getting on??
Click to expand...
I got back to this today before it started snowing. The engine is hydrolocked and there was a puddle of oil sitting in the inlet port on no 4 cylinder so I think there was a lot of oil coming down the intercooler pipe.
Pump is off again and there is definitely something wrong there, about 1mm of end float on the drive shaft which was not there before it was fitted. Signs of fuel leakage around the shaft too so it was escaping into the timing chain case.
Engine oil level is too high and I think it smells of diesel so that is where the diesel went!

If the leaky pump was pressurising the crankcase then I thought that the crankcase ventilation should deal with that - replacement oil separator type, cleaned out at last service. I suppose as the volume of crankcase oil increases, it can get overwhelmed.

If the crankcase pressure has pushed oil past the turbo seal then I am guessing that the seal will now be useless and I have a turbo replacement task to do as well.

The to-do list now reads:
Fix/replace fuel pump
Get glow plugs out (looked at this today and they are not keen to come out) and vacuum out the cylinders
Check the crankcase ventilation
Clean out the intercooler and manifold
New engine oil and filter
Start engine without turbo connected and see what comes down the pipe from the turbo (replace turbo if necessary)

Then many more happy miles of trouble-free driving!

Can you think of anything that I missed?
 
Seems it was the same fault as mine then. My turbo survived ok. Your list looks ok just one thing to note...the exhaust will be flooded with fuel and so it will appear that the fault is still there even when fixed. Mine took several hours of running to clear the white smoke. Might be easier to clear bores through injector holes, less likely to break those but budget on new o rings and copper washers if you go that way. Good luck and keep us informed.
 
Stripped and rebuilt the hpfp today and found the problem. There is a non return valve on the fuel inlet and that had slipped slightly into the body of the pump. That blocked the end plate on reassembly and stopped the seals from working properly. Diesel from the lpfp has been flowing along the drive shaft and into the timing case.

Got the pump back on before the snow started again. Glow plugs are very stuck so next stage is to get the injectors out. I have hooked up a vacuum pump to a brake pipe probe via an old oil can sump so I should be able to empty the cylinders.

Any suggestions for cleaning out the intercooler?
 
blodge said:
Any suggestions for cleaning out the intercooler?
Click to expand...

I'd remove it and give the inside a good clean with a glug of petrol, swilled about a tipped out. Repeat a couple more times, before blowing out with and air line.

For the fuel in pistons. I'd just pop the injectors out and crank the engine over. This will eject any excess fuel out the injector hole. Put a rag over the holes to prevent the fuel hitting the bonnet. ;)
 
Last edited:
Glad you've got to the bottom of this. Hopefully a flush and a crank over and good to go!! Sounds easy sitting here by the log fire!!!
 
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