Golan
Active Member
Don't bother Data, he got banned last night
That's a shame I was just getting used to seeing his name at the top of the threads!!!!!
That's a shame I was just getting used to seeing his name at the top of the threads!!!!!
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Don't bother Data, he got banned last night
Little Rectal Orrifice is banned? I suppose he was a bit OTT but so stupid no one could take him too seriously
Better watch my P's and Q's or I could be in trouble
Firingrange
New Member
Hi.
I am new to this site. I am an electronic diagnostic engineer, and Have many years knowledge of chipping and adding boxes to improve power/torque, and mpg.
Just read this thread, and all I can say is, what a disappointment! The childishness from senior members over an ex-member called LRO, is or was unprofessional, and just plain silly. He had some valied points to say, and in no way was he really wrong, except his ideas on boxes.
A tuning box basically enriches the fueling where it is needed. All injectors can flow more then standard, pressure wise, and the box uses this, to enhance the driveability of the vehicle. But, some cheap boxes which are not programmable, ie- have no adjuster/switch, to alter the fueling, can indeed wreck the pump etc, as LRO quite rightly suggested.
A remap is better for the engine for absolute all round performance and mpg, but again, a poor remap, can wreck the pump, and even the engine. Seen engines with blown pistons, due the the fueling being all wrong!
The bottom line here is, you have to be careful. Both work well on an engine if done correctly. An adjustable box will allow an increase in power/torque without the dreaded black smoke [unburnt fuel], set at the right setting. Set on a higher setting might give absolute power, but will introduce black smoke!
A way of reducing the black smoke, is an increase in induction air. playing with the induction [increasing air flow through pressure], will increase power/torque, and allow you to go up a switch or 2 on your box!
On a Rover 2.0 TD [BMW] with adjustable box and modified air intake, the intake allowed another 10bhp, giving 160bhp and helped the mpg by adding 2mpg. So a win win situation!
Sorry to sprout off on my first post, but i personnaly think its better to discuss things, rather then be personal with people on an open forum. If you have a problem with somebody, then take it to message.
Andy.
I am new to this site. I am an electronic diagnostic engineer, and Have many years knowledge of chipping and adding boxes to improve power/torque, and mpg.
Just read this thread, and all I can say is, what a disappointment! The childishness from senior members over an ex-member called LRO, is or was unprofessional, and just plain silly. He had some valied points to say, and in no way was he really wrong, except his ideas on boxes.
A tuning box basically enriches the fueling where it is needed. All injectors can flow more then standard, pressure wise, and the box uses this, to enhance the driveability of the vehicle. But, some cheap boxes which are not programmable, ie- have no adjuster/switch, to alter the fueling, can indeed wreck the pump etc, as LRO quite rightly suggested.
A remap is better for the engine for absolute all round performance and mpg, but again, a poor remap, can wreck the pump, and even the engine. Seen engines with blown pistons, due the the fueling being all wrong!
The bottom line here is, you have to be careful. Both work well on an engine if done correctly. An adjustable box will allow an increase in power/torque without the dreaded black smoke [unburnt fuel], set at the right setting. Set on a higher setting might give absolute power, but will introduce black smoke!
A way of reducing the black smoke, is an increase in induction air. playing with the induction [increasing air flow through pressure], will increase power/torque, and allow you to go up a switch or 2 on your box!
On a Rover 2.0 TD [BMW] with adjustable box and modified air intake, the intake allowed another 10bhp, giving 160bhp and helped the mpg by adding 2mpg. So a win win situation!
Sorry to sprout off on my first post, but i personnaly think its better to discuss things, rather then be personal with people on an open forum. If you have a problem with somebody, then take it to message.
Andy.
Firingrange
New Member
Oh dear. Looking at the new VOSA 2012 MOT changes, any mods to the ECU [read chip or tune box] will be outlawed!! Read this;-
There are to be some changes to the MOT test from 1st January 2012 which are being introduced in response to European Commission Directive 2010/48/EU of the 5th July 2010 and which will effect those with aftermarket HID headlights and remapped ECUs:
4.1.4 Compliance with requirements:
(a) Lamp, emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements
(B) Products on lens or light source which obviously reduce light intensity or change emitted colour
© Light source and lamp not compatible
4.1.5. Levelling devices (where mandatory):
(a) Device not operating.
(B) Manual device cannot be operated from drivers seat.
4.1.6 Headlamp cleaning device (where mandatory):
Device not operating.
For anyone with a remap, section 6.1.9 may be relevant.
6.1.9 Engine performance:
(a) Control unit illegal modified.
(B) Illegal engine modification.
(by 'illegal', it is assumed that they mean changed/programmed differently from OEM specifications)
There will also be a new check on the general condition of the wiring:
4.11. Electrical wiring
(a) Wiring insecure or not adequately secured.
(B) Wiring deteriorated.
© Damaged or deteriorated insulation
and on the function of airbag and seat belt pre-tensioner systems:
7.1.4. Safety belt Pre-tensioners:
Pre-tensioner obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
7.1.5. Airbag:
(a) Airbags obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
(B) Airbag obviously non-operative.
7.1.6. SRS Systems:
SRS MIL indicates any kind of failure of the system.
Originally Posted by VOSA
The car/light goods vehicle MOT test is about to change the European Commission has changed the Directive that covers it. We take a look at when these changes are likely to come into effect and what they mean for MOT testers.
Britain has been testing vehicles under the MOT scheme for 50 years now. Last year, the European Directive covering the MOT test was updated and revised by a modern version called 2009/40/ EC. This was then updated by 2010/48/EU, which was ratified on 5 July this year.
The new Directive keeps the EU minimum 4-2-2 test frequency but adds a number of new elements to the British MOT test. The Directive anticipates all test changes being in place by 1 January 2012, and a common European approach to test certificates in place by 1 January 2014. So what is VOSA doing to introduce the changes?
In terms of test frequency, in mid-July the coalition government confirmed that it intends to look at the issue of MOT test frequencies later this year. VOSA contributed statistical data to inform the last review in 2008, and we expect that our computer system and the data you have entered will be utilised again in much the same way.
We expect to hear more details of the governments review proposals later in the year.
As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.
In many cases, the changes shouldnt necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.
Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the tests scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesnt look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.
Other items such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine chipping will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations.
Some of the new items may require extra effort on the part of the tester when we know for sure what that is well be talking again with our trade and DfT colleagues to work out what the impact will be.
The common EU test certificate should be relatively easy to achieve the only data that the Directive expects and that we dont currently provide is the symbol for the vehicles country of origin. Probably 99% of vehicles tested will have
UK entered here, but if you do test vehicles with a foreign plate, you will need to enter the correct country symbol. We may even be able to make this change earlier if there is a convenient opportunity.
The MOT trade can rest assured that VOSA is working closely with you to introduce any new elements as efficiently and effectively as possible, with the minimum of fuss. Just as importantly, we are also working closely with Siemens to ensure that any system changes due on New Years Eve 2011 go smoothly! We should know more by the time the MOT seminars take place come along and ask the experts.
Copied from another site.
Andy.
There are to be some changes to the MOT test from 1st January 2012 which are being introduced in response to European Commission Directive 2010/48/EU of the 5th July 2010 and which will effect those with aftermarket HID headlights and remapped ECUs:
4.1.4 Compliance with requirements:
(a) Lamp, emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements
(B) Products on lens or light source which obviously reduce light intensity or change emitted colour
© Light source and lamp not compatible
4.1.5. Levelling devices (where mandatory):
(a) Device not operating.
(B) Manual device cannot be operated from drivers seat.
4.1.6 Headlamp cleaning device (where mandatory):
Device not operating.
For anyone with a remap, section 6.1.9 may be relevant.
6.1.9 Engine performance:
(a) Control unit illegal modified.
(B) Illegal engine modification.
(by 'illegal', it is assumed that they mean changed/programmed differently from OEM specifications)
There will also be a new check on the general condition of the wiring:
4.11. Electrical wiring
(a) Wiring insecure or not adequately secured.
(B) Wiring deteriorated.
© Damaged or deteriorated insulation
and on the function of airbag and seat belt pre-tensioner systems:
7.1.4. Safety belt Pre-tensioners:
Pre-tensioner obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
7.1.5. Airbag:
(a) Airbags obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
(B) Airbag obviously non-operative.
7.1.6. SRS Systems:
SRS MIL indicates any kind of failure of the system.
Originally Posted by VOSA
The car/light goods vehicle MOT test is about to change the European Commission has changed the Directive that covers it. We take a look at when these changes are likely to come into effect and what they mean for MOT testers.
Britain has been testing vehicles under the MOT scheme for 50 years now. Last year, the European Directive covering the MOT test was updated and revised by a modern version called 2009/40/ EC. This was then updated by 2010/48/EU, which was ratified on 5 July this year.
The new Directive keeps the EU minimum 4-2-2 test frequency but adds a number of new elements to the British MOT test. The Directive anticipates all test changes being in place by 1 January 2012, and a common European approach to test certificates in place by 1 January 2014. So what is VOSA doing to introduce the changes?
In terms of test frequency, in mid-July the coalition government confirmed that it intends to look at the issue of MOT test frequencies later this year. VOSA contributed statistical data to inform the last review in 2008, and we expect that our computer system and the data you have entered will be utilised again in much the same way.
We expect to hear more details of the governments review proposals later in the year.
As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.
In many cases, the changes shouldnt necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.
Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the tests scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesnt look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.
Other items such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine chipping will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations.
Some of the new items may require extra effort on the part of the tester when we know for sure what that is well be talking again with our trade and DfT colleagues to work out what the impact will be.
The common EU test certificate should be relatively easy to achieve the only data that the Directive expects and that we dont currently provide is the symbol for the vehicles country of origin. Probably 99% of vehicles tested will have
UK entered here, but if you do test vehicles with a foreign plate, you will need to enter the correct country symbol. We may even be able to make this change earlier if there is a convenient opportunity.
The MOT trade can rest assured that VOSA is working closely with you to introduce any new elements as efficiently and effectively as possible, with the minimum of fuss. Just as importantly, we are also working closely with Siemens to ensure that any system changes due on New Years Eve 2011 go smoothly! We should know more by the time the MOT seminars take place come along and ask the experts.
Copied from another site.
Andy.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
zzr1200
Well-Known Member
That's why a plug in power box is best, it can easily be removed for the test.
Tut Tut, Datatek encouraging peeps to break the law....
but the mot does state "complies only at time of test" now the plug n play boxes will cost more than the chip route, soon......
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Tut Tut, Datatek encouraging peeps to break the law....
but the mot does state "complies only at time of test" now the plug n play boxes will cost more than the chip route, soon......
On my Transit, it's possible to have 2 maps, for example the original and a performance map and switch between the two
Golan
Active Member
I'm with you on this how the hell are they going to work out if your engines been tweaked!
That's why a plug in power box is best, it can easily be removed for the test.
where might one get one the same as is on yours if one wanted one? lets say.. ?
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
i can get psi boxes from britpart for £250+vat if it helps da4420 95-99 da4419 2000-
Firingrange
New Member
Without a tuning upgrade, these P38 2.5 Diesels are possibly the slowest vehicle from 0-60mph.!!! So, its a matter of unplug, then replug after MOT.
With all the fail messages available on the P38, will messages be a failure?
Andy.
So, its a matter of unplug, then replug after MOT. With all the fail messages available on the P38, will messages be a failure?
Andy.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Without a tuning upgrade, these P38 2.5 Diesels are possibly the slowest vehicle from 0-60mph.!!!
With all the fail messages available on the P38, will messages be a failure?
Andy.
You obviously haven't driven a Hyundai Galloper or a 2.5 Pajero auto, the P38 diesel is a dragster by comparison
From next year an SRS airbag failure message will be an MOT failure.
tomcat59alan
Well-Known Member
hi members,reading info posted by VOSA states after illegal engine "chipping"-will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for mot stations.by the time they get around to a workable solution i will have torn the bowels out of my superchipped p38
