D2 Com

D2 Com

Banned
After a ridiculous cost at my local garage for an attempted diagnosis of why my heater isn't as efficient as it should be I decided to collect the Landy in the knowledge that the thermostat has been replaced and a HG test had been carried out showing no fault!

Whilst the D2 drives pretty much faultlessly and the temp gauge appears to be as reliable as clockwork, I'm not looking forward to the winter with a blower that barely gets luke warm.
Checks so far have included HG pressure test (pass), eliminating air in the system, taking infra-red temps of inlet/outlet hoses (32/22 degrees!) and a replacement thermostat. Water can be seen to be recirculating in the top up bottle.

In over 5K miles of ownership I've never been particularly impressed with the 'heater' and so if it were an HG breaking down then surely it would've gone long before now?

A local LR specialist immediately said HG (phone converstaion rather than inspection) and yet the garage it was with said it passed the HG test?

I am now looking at getting a replacement water pump for my Td5 D2 and after doing a search I have come up with the following two items:-

1) P/No PEM500040GEN @ £57.15 from Land-Rover-Parts-Shop.com
2) P/No PEM500040 (ERR6505)@£24.47 from Foundry 4x4 Ltd.

Now then, in most walks of life you only get what you pay for and so I'd be inclined to ebb toward the dearer item (OE), in saying that I am not necessarily a fan of spending more than necessary on an item where another item will do the same job!

My question is has anyone bought the cheaper water pump and if so has it given good service/mileage or have you been regretful and wished you'd bought the dearer item? Furthermore, if you have suffered similar symptons what cure was eventually found?

Any other relevent advice is most welcome.

Cheers.
 
Don't be fooled by a passed HG test. My landy passed 3 sniff tests and 3 compression tests. It had a blown headgasket due to nylon dowels shifting. It then passed a block test with 2 cracks in the head which were only discovered 10 months later when I decided it still wasn't right. It again passed a sniff test and compression test. It was only my insistance that it wasn't right that made the engineering company take the head off and re-test it.

My heater was also struggling to get hot. It was only blowing luke warm all through winter.
 
LRD5 said:
To be honest I don't! The garage 'guessed' that this would be the next avenue he would try.
Click to expand...

I think you'll be wasting your time replacing the waterpump. If yours is not as strong as it could be a new one will aid the circulation which will make it run cooler still.
 
ratty said:
Don't be fooled by a passed HG test. My landy passed 3 sniff tests and 3 compression tests. It had a blown headgasket due to nylon dowels shifting. It then passed a block test with 2 cracks in the head which were only discovered 10 months later when I decided it still wasn't right. It again passed a sniff test and compression test. It was only my insistance that it wasn't right that made the engineering company take the head off and re-test it.

My heater was also struggling to get hot. It was only blowing luke warm all through winter.
Click to expand...

Thanks...you've made my day...not!
No seriously, I did ask what guarantees there are that the sniff test was 100% reliable and I got a shrugged shoulders in return for my question from the garage.
In truth I am beginning to lean toward a HG issue. I know this 'cos I am sub-consciously starting to watch the temp gauge more often than cursery!
I think the symptons of yours and mine are just too similar for it to be anything else really. Cheers.
 
had this time and time before, the dye headgasket tests are frigging useless.

Ask the garage to put gas analyzer under bonnet to get background Hydrocarbon reading with engine running. Then hold over top coolant expansion tank with cap off and engine running.

If it jumps you have the culprit hgf

if you have hgf the very first symptoms can be heater failure and sometimes you can see temp gauge needle rocking slightly

didn't realize was diesel
 
Last edited:
LRD5 said:
Thanks...you've made my day...not!
No seriously, I did ask what guarantees there are that the sniff test was 100% reliable and I got a shrugged shoulders in return for my question from the garage.
In truth I am beginning to lean toward a HG issue. I know this 'cos I am sub-consciously starting to watch the temp gauge more often than cursery!
I think the symptons of yours and mine are just too similar for it to be anything else really. Cheers.
Click to expand...

Am I right in guessing that your coolant pipes are also a little more solid than they ought to be?
 
ratty said:
Am I right in guessing that your coolant pipes are also a little more solid than they ought to be?
Click to expand...

It's not something that has occured to me actually although when giving a squeeze the main rad hose didn't feel as if anything was untoward.

I will check in to my local LR specialist this time instead of an 'every make' workshop.
 
fanatic said:
had this time and time before, the dye headgasket tests are frigging useless.

Ask the garage to put gas analyzer under bonnet to get background Hydrocarbon reading with engine running. Then hold over top coolant expansion tank with cap off and engine running.

If it jumps you have the culprit hgf

if you have hgf the very first symptoms can be heater failure and sometimes you can see temp gauge needle rocking slightly

didn't realize was diesel
Click to expand...


Noted...cheers!
 
LRD5 said:
Noted...cheers!
Click to expand...

The thermostat on a TD5 starts to open at 82 degs and is full open at 95 degs. The temp gauge will not move from nomal at all within this range.

A diesel is also very difficult to sniff test. False readings on them are common.

Going back to the pressurising thing...

With mine I could have it ticking over all day with no issues or pressurising. A 1/2 mile run was enough to pressurise the system. If this is the case and you do go down the headgasket route, tell whoever is gonna test the head for cracks to make sure the head is hot enough when they check it. If yours does appear to have the above symptom There is a high likelyhood that you have a crack on the inlet side and that it only happens when the turbo is pressurising it.
 
ratty said:
A diesel is also very difficult to sniff test. False readings on them are common.
Click to expand...


Very interesting!

Basically then I've paid 120 notes (so far) for a new thermostat, some anti-freeze and a test procedure that translates in english to ' we'll do this check 'cos your wallet might be too heavy but take no notice of it 'cos it doesn't tell you anything anyway sir'!
Mind you it was nice of them to ring me yesterday to say they forgot to replace the engine cover...afterall it's a small enough item to overlook!!

Right, off to see a man who can.......
 
LRD5 said:
Very interesting!

Basically then I've paid 120 notes (so far) for a new thermostat, some anti-freeze and a test procedure that translates in english to ' we'll do this check 'cos your wallet might be too heavy but take no notice of it 'cos it doesn't tell you anything anyway sir'!
Mind you it was nice of them to ring me yesterday to say they forgot to replace the engine cover...afterall it's a small enough item to overlook!!

Right, off to see a man who can.......
Click to expand...


How much did they charge you for the sniff test?
 
ratty said:
How much did they charge you for the sniff test?
Click to expand...

The cost was only broken down to:-

Antifreeze.....£14.40
Thermostat..£15.95
---------------------------------------------

Their hourly rate is £43.00

Total bill £143.74

I drew cash from my wallet and he said call it £120.00

Notes on the invoice state "Investigate coolant circulation fault, replace thermostat"

To summarize then... the heater isn't as effective as I would expect it to be, in fact no different to when it went in! It blows warmer on heat position 1 than it does on the higher scale but I think it might be warmer to use the motorbike than the Landy when the winter sets in!

The A/F and Thermo amount to £30.35 which means £90 for squeezing some pipework, spending 2 minutes with an infra-red tool to check temp in the hoses and for a sniff of my top end, plus labour.

Local Landy specialist says he wouldn't be too concerned after having a quick look over the motor and pipework etc. Just keep an eye on the water level and try flushing the the heater matrix pipework. If anything he said my D2 was probably running cooler than standard since changing my front grill , thereby increasing airflow around the rad.

I shall sit back and enjoy my driving once again and chill out to the extent I was prior to having the heater situation investigated.
Nothing made me have it investigated other than plain old curiosity. It's not as though the heater is cold, just not as warm as I'd like/expect.

Thank for the advice anyway.
 
LRD5 said:
The cost was only broken down to:-

Antifreeze.....£14.40
Thermostat..£15.95
---------------------------------------------

Their hourly rate is £43.00

Total bill £143.74

I drew cash from my wallet and he said call it £120.00

Notes on the invoice state "Investigate coolant circulation fault, replace thermostat"

To summarize then... the heater isn't as effective as I would expect it to be, in fact no different to when it went in! It blows warmer on heat position 1 than it does on the higher scale but I think it might be warmer to use the motorbike than the Landy when the winter sets in!

The A/F and Thermo amount to £30.35 which means £90 for squeezing some pipework, spending 2 minutes with an infra-red tool to check temp in the hoses and for a sniff of my top end, plus labour.

Local Landy specialist says he wouldn't be too concerned after having a quick look over the motor and pipework etc. Just keep an eye on the water level and try flushing the the heater matrix pipework. If anything he said my D2 was probably running cooler than standard since changing my front grill , thereby increasing airflow around the rad.

I shall sit back and enjoy my driving once again and chill out to the extent I was prior to having the heater situation investigated.
Nothing made me have it investigated other than plain old curiosity. It's not as though the heater is cold, just not as warm as I'd like/expect.

Thank for the advice anyway.
Click to expand...

just try blanking the rad airflow slightly and see if it makes a difference.
 
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